TCC Podcast #126: Deep into the Woo with Ron Baker - The Copywriter Club
TCC Podcast #126: Deep into the Woo with Ron Baker

Okay, this one is more than a little different. We talked with bio-energetics therapist and self mastery coach, Ron Baker for the 126th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Let’s just say this upfront, this interview is way outside our experience as copywriters. But as human beings, maybe there’s something here that we can all learn from. Here’s what we covered with Ron:
•  how he become a “bio-energetics therapist” and self mastery coach
•  how to be present in the moment and get in touch with your “inner self”
•  the place that breath plays in inspiration, intuition and passion
•  an exercise or two to get in touch with your inner self
•  how breath work and sound has changed Ron’s client’s life
•  Ron’s experiences visiting sacred sites around the world
•  what is possible for deeper personal potential and consciousness
•  the one thing everyone should do when it comes to woo
•  how woo applies to online marketing

Want to hear it all? Click the play button below or download this episode to your favorite podcast app. Or, if you prefer, you can scroll down for a full transcript.


The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:

Ron’s website
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground
Intro: Content (for now)
Outro: Gravity


Full Transcript:

Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground.

Kira:   It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently.

Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to

Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast.

Rob:   You’re invited to join the club for episode 126 as we chat with self-mastery coach, Ron Baker about self-mastery and what we can do to get better at it. The levels of consciousness, creating a better life, and what it all has to do with copywriting.

Kira:   Welcome, Ron.

Ron:   Thank you for having me here. I have been enjoying your podcast a lot. I was actually just laughing my ass off at the interview that Ry did with the two of you.

Kira:   Oh, you listened to that one.

Ron:   I love … Well, I listened to many, but I love the humanity and-

Kira:   Oh boy.

Ron:   Putting yourselves in the hot seat. I thought it was very courageous. I’m really-

Rob:   Let’s not do that again, shall we?

Kira:   No I think we should do that more often. That was fun. So thanks for jumping in here with us. We were just saying before we started recording that this conversation is a little bit different than our normal copywriting focus conversations but I feel like this would be really helpful for us to branch out and stretch and for other copywriters to stretch, as well. So let’s kick it off with your story, Ron. How did you end up as a bio-energetics therapist and self-mastery coach?

Ron:   Well, the simple version of that is how did I end up as a nurturer and a guide for people to get to know themselves more fully? Because as I share just a brief version of my story, it will end up with how I went through 20 years of school as well as home and nobody taught me anything about myself, about my inner self, about how to truly trust myself and be fulfilled as a self. So, all of that started out way back when in North Carolina, and I grew up in a home that had some very typical challenges and some difficult challenges, and basically we were five separate people on five separate islands who didn’t know how to communicate and nurture. Though everybody was inherently a really good person, nobody had the skills to create connection, intimacy and communication. We ended up with alcoholism and divorce and all kinds of things to navigate.

At the same time, I was having these inner gut feelings that I couldn’t explain. I said, ‘I feel like I am protected and I’m guided.’ And I feel like I’m being prepared for something and I had no idea what I was talking about. I was only like 10 and 11 years old when all that started to happen. I then moved through high school into college and out into the world and had a first career compensating for all of my self-doubt. All of the lack of education about self. All of the fear and shame that I carried and I had some really cool ways to do that. I had a first career where I got to be one of the lucky ones performing over 60 leading roles in Broadway shows and opera all over the world. I was in glamorous positions working with famous people, signing autographs and I was so unhappy on the inside. I didn’t know how to fulfill my self and it was really confusing, because I was living some people’s idea of the dream of success.

And so, I interrupted the whole thing and went on a journey of inner exploration and what I discovered over the years, there was some overlap, but over the years of studying with so many different teachers and perspectives, was that the inner is the whole point. Me expressing myself in performing, me experiencing being in it, is what was fulfilling. Me deepening my self and my connections with people is what mattered and so, to tie that together with copywriting, I love sharing this and all that I’ve learned with other people who want to express and have a voice and be creative and inspire other people. And so I put together the pieces of my journey and a ton of years of studying with different people interrupted that performing career and when the tools that I was developing for myself ended up helping my friends that I would share it with, I eventually, to make the story much shorter, transitioned to doing that full time and now 22 years later, I have been jammed full of clients all over the world who simply want to take their lives to the next level by getting to know and how to tap and how to express their most authentic selves.

Rob:   So when you talk about experiencing this at a deeper level, it sounds to me a little bit like when we talked about being present in the moment. But maybe it’s something deeper than that. We talk more about that and that experience and how we do that?

Ron:   Absolutely. Being present in the moment is vital. Most people do their best every day to be present in the moment, but they don’t even know what they don’t know. Clients come to me and I say, ‘You’ll be amazed three, six months from now, as you begin to work, how little you have been connected to yourself. Even your physical body.’ So, learning how to connect physically, how to connect emotionally, how to get in touch with the inner self in very simple, practical ways, begins to awaken and stimulate the inner self rather than I’m someone who does this and I’m my activities and I don’t know anymore than to build the outer structures. So when we get in touch with the inner self, let’s actually start with a practical exercise that everybody listening could do at this moment to see how in touch with your physical self you are in this moment.

I’m going to say a word and I would encourage you not to shift a thing but just bring your focus to this word. The word is breath. Just pay attention to what you’re already doing. I have been teaching for 22 years and 99% of the time what people discover is they are doing a very shallow high in the chest, what I call ‘survival breath’. There are reasons for that. We have most of our physical, emotional, mental energy that was impacted in our early lives, held in our lower bodies and when we weren’t nurtured and taught how to trust the connection to self and the value of self, then we hold a bunch of fear, shame and judgment there and what we learn to do is to make the breath shallower and shallower and shallower, trying to avoid shaking up our fear, shame and judgment.

So we focus on the outside. We breathe shallow. We go up in our heads living on what I call the ‘observation deck’ of life. Just observing everything like I was doing in my career performing. I was observing and there, but I wasn’t present in the moment as an experience in myself. So what I teach people to do is recognize what has been habitual, like that shallow survival breath, and then I teach them to breathe like we did naturally as a baby. If you watch a baby lying on its back in a crib, the only thing that moves is the belly. It goes up and down. Well that’s exactly where we hold a lot of our stuff. And so as a child, it was overwhelming but now that we are an adult, going back in to do it, it is completely safe. Not a big deal at all. So, I encourage people to take a deep breath that fills the lower belly and then to do a proactive out breath through the mouth. And it sounds a little like this.

I have never had a single person when I suggest that they take a full breath ever do an out breath like that. How does that apply to someone being a copywriter? Your breath determines how much you are in touch with your inner self and your out breath determines how free you feel to assert and express yourself. 99.99 of the people I have taught have a very tight, careful out breath. When people learn how safe they are to begin moving their energy and awakening themselves more fully on the inside, all of a sudden, they begin to tap a different level of creativity and inspiration and intuition, and the stuff that is in the guts all of us writers that want to express, develops a more relaxed, freer capacity to get that out and on the page.

So that’s one way being more in the moment just connecting to the physical body, it can be practical and will change your life.

Kira:   Okay. I love that because I often just stop breathing when I am working. I catch myself. Just, I think a lot of copywriters do that because you’re on your laptop typing and you just don’t breathe. I’m sure it’s not good for me, so I’ve been thinking a lot about breath recently, too. Can you talk more about how … Like what actually happens when you take that deep breath and you exhale? Does it trigger emotions or what is it triggering when you do that?

Ron:   Well, what we are afraid of is that it will trigger emotions because we live on a planet that has had such a primitive, emotional education. It’s shocking. I’ll do another practical exercise in a moment but I want to answer this question first about the emotion. So, if you pay attention to what you just shared that when you are doing the work, you often stop breathing. This is because we tend to go up in our heads and want to figure it out and we want to get it right and we want it to be perfect, and we want it to be impressive and we want it to get a certain response. Well, in my experience, when we are in touch with our heart and our gut and we get in touch with something that moves us or inspires us, or that makes us laugh and we just trust getting that out as a pure expression, rather than working so hard in our heads, what comes out as the initial idea on the page is so much more moving and inspirational to other people who will read it because it’s like a direct line from my humanity to touch your humanity.

And when we get so caught up in our heads, we tend to disconnect from our humanity, our heart, our inspiration. Now, thank God for the head. Thank God for the intelligence, because it’s a vital piece of the puzzle, but it is so much more effective when it is connected into the body and the heart. And so what happens is literally you open three diaphragms in the body. The first is up here in the throat. The jaw, tongue, throat can grip and close and then the next one is down in the solar plexus area, right below the sternum and then the lowest one is the sphincter muscle. The butt muscle. All three of these are intended to open and close, moving energy up and down our bodies but when we get all wacked out in self-doubt, as just one example, then we grip. We stop breathing. And we disconnect ourselves from our heart and our gut. So, when you take these breaths and you just get used to it daily, practicing this flow and this openness, you teach your nervous system how safe it is to stay open and then the flow of your inspiration, your intuition, your emotional connection, the passion you have for something, is so much more accessible.

Generally, I think what happens when somebody hits what they call the writer’s block, is they have such grip in their diaphragms, the three diaphragms that they can’t move. They can’t get in touch with themselves in order to get the idea out. And so we become panicked in the head and we go into fear and resistance. So the breath, not right when you’re writing, but just all the time practicing that several times a day, will allow a relaxation and a trust as you see how safe you are to open to yourself, opens a whole different flow of creativity. So, hopefully that is helpful in answering that question.

Kira:   Yeah. I feel like we should all breathe deeply throughout this conversation. So, can we back up a little bit and talk about going inner and the whole point behind all of this to get out of our heads? I think there are probably are a lot of copywriters listening who think that they are okay. Like they were nurtured as a child and they’ve got their inner game figured out. I mean, there’s not really a test or a checklist to know if you’ve worked on it or if you’ve done the work or not or if it’s actually … you’ve done the work, and it’s actually worked for you. So how do I know that I am … I’ve done the inner work and I am good to go?

Ron:   So, it’s a process that can go as deep as you choose to go. Clients will come to me and they’ll go, ‘How long is this going to take?’ And I go, ‘How long is what going to take?’

Kira:   ‘This take an hour?’

Ron:   Yeah. Two hours should do it. And I say, ‘Well, it just depends on how far you want to go.’ So how long does it take to learn math? Well, how far into math do you want to go? So the same thing with getting to know self, the same thing with connecting to your emotional body, the same thing with any inner part of ourselves. The problem is, if people were loving around us, then we think, ‘Oh, well I had a great childhood. Nobody pushed me down the stairs. I don’t have alcoholism and divorce. Therefore, I am fine.’ Well, of course, you are fine. Yay for that. But when you went to third grade, you were also fine. Did you not want to go to fourth grade and tenth grade and college? Well some people do. Some people don’t. So if you want to go deeper, if you want to free up more of your inner potential, then these are tools to do that. I like to give a context that in the first eight years of our lives, each of us had nine specific nurturing needs. Some were physical. Some were emotional. Some were mental.

And yet, I’ve never had a single person even psychologist that I teach, be able to name what they imagine the nine nurturing needs are. The experiences that need to take place. And so I’ll name some of those. We needed consistent experiences of safety, connection, affection, acknowledgement, acceptance, compassion. Let’s just stick a couple of those. How many of you listening were taught how to identify what you are feeling in the moment? How often did someone say, ‘Oh, I see that you are feeling sad. I want you to know you are really safe to feel that feeling. I know it’s vulnerable right now when it’s coming up the first time, but this is a sacred part of you and I’m going to hold a space. I’m also going to model in my own life when I feel sad, I’ll allow myself to feel sad or talk about what I am sad about.’ Well, I chose a very simple feeling. But I’ve never heard conversations like this. When was the last time you went out to lunch with somebody and you shared what you are going through emotionally and how to negotiate it and encouraging and holding a space?

People just don’t even tend to talk about their feelings unless a huge feeling comes up and they are venting about it, but they don’t know what to do with it or how to nurture and resolve it. So, we can have received a survival level of all of it, and we are surviving our lives just fine. We may be even thriving in the outer structures like I was doing in my first career. But on the inside, I felt like a fraud. I felt like I was pretending to be fine when I really felt lonely and disconnected to be on the road all the time. And not be deepening relationships, nor did I really know how to do that, as an example. And I wanted to go deeper, so I learned how to go deeper and so that is the answer. And I realize my answers tend to be very involved.

Rob:   Well, let’s explore that a little bit. Because I’m all about the practical. So we’ve talked a lot about the what. We did a little bit of the breathing exercise, but how do we tap into this? How do we do this?

Ron:   So, I teach people how to get connected with three simple things. Breath, sound and feelings. And when you can combine those three things, it is the foundation for everything as far as you’d like to go. And then you add the nine nurturing needs to that and creating an experience of acknowledging your own feelings, accepting your own feelings, treating yourself with compassion, and holding a safe space for yourself. So how do we do that? Well, it’s literally as simple and practical as taking that full deep breath and you’d be amazed at how challenging that is for people to do and feel safe to truly open. Then, we add sound into the equation where you learn to reclaim your voice and that is as simple as what we’re doing with talking, only you take out the consonants and you end up with one sound and you learn how to move the sound and reclaim and create this inner vibration and massage. That begins to move more energy.

Then you go in with access to your lower body through breath and sound. And you learn how to identify your feelings. So let’s do another practical exercise. Whoever is listening at the moment, see if you can name five feelings that you are feeling right now, in this moment. I’ve been doing this a long time, and some people can come up with one or two. Very rarely, people can come up with five feelings. How comfortable do you feel to name those or share those out loud? Then how safe do you feel to express the actual feeling? Let’s just say I’m feeling frustrated. When was the last time you ever allowed yourself to breathe and express the energy of your frustration to get it up and out? I’m going to turn away from the microphone and make a sound of frustration. How often do we feel safe to connect the self, to express self, to communicate safe? People will tend to do it only from the head, from the observer, from the let me report something, but they don’t allow the intimacy with the actual experience they’re having.

As a writer, if you can get in touch with all of that and create a safety with being able to express the depth of what you are passionate about, what you fear, what you are loving, what moves you; it is amazing the level of creativity that it opens you to as far and deep as you choose to go. It’s easier if you have somebody who is guiding that and can hold a safe space to guide like mommy and daddy would have done if they had known how. So, that’s another practical exercise that will give you a litmus test about how connected and aware of your emotional body you are at the moment.

Kira:   So with the breath sound feelings, how should copywriters who maybe haven’t tried this before, how can they implement every morning, start your day with a deep breath, sound, getting in touch with your feelings or is it … Because it feels a little overwhelming to me. Do I have to do this all the time?

Ron:   Well, it is a little overwhelming to hear it as a first … Like, when I do this in sessions, I introduce the breath in the first or second session, and then once they feel comfortable with that more and more, then I would add sound and after they’ve gotten comfortable with that, I would add another layer as we’re talking about everything going on in their lives, and how to apply nurturing to those events that are happening. So to introduce it in a really quick breath, sound and feeling, that is overwhelming to begin with. So my suggestion is that everybody start with, am I willing to even breath into my lower belly and do this out breath where I send the air to the other side of the room and teach my nervous system that I am much safer to free express what’s inside me than I may have been practicing. And I get my clients, I say, ‘Can you do that three times a day for one minute? One minute.’ I’m not suggesting that we move through life breathing that way but it’s like going to the gym.

You don’t walk around in life with dumbbells. You go to the gym and you flex that part of you that needs to strengthen and build scope, and then when you need it and you need to call upon it, you have the capacity already accessible. So three times a day for one minute with breathing is plenty. You will move much more energy than you are aware, or used to. It may even make you lightheaded or dizzy to begin with, because you cause a surge of energy to go up the spine when you do that big out breath. The body needs it in every cell of your being. It needs oxygen and energy and we’ve gotten used to giving it survival level of both. So, just to begin with that is stunning. And then if you want to go further and learn how to apply it into your life and feel safer to tap more of your creativity, reach out to me through, or someone else who does some similar kind of work. Get the guidance, the help and support that you need but guess what? When we don’t trust our value, we don’t tend to trust reaching out and asking for help either. So, I encourage it in a big way.

Kira:   Hey, we’re just jumping into the show today to tell you a little bit more about The Copywriter Underground. Rob, what do you like best about this membership?

Rob:   So this membership community is full of copywriters that are investing in their businesses and taking what they do seriously. Everything is focused around three ideas. Copywriting, and getting better at the craft that we all do. Marketing, and getting in front of the right customers so that you can charge more and earn more. And also mindsets, so that you can get out of your head and focus on the things that will help you be successful at what we do. There’s a private Facebook group for the members of the community, and we also send out a monthly newsletter that’s full of advice, again, on those three areas; copywriting, marketing and mindset. Things that you can markup and tear out, put them in your files, save them for whatever and it’s not going to get lost in your e-mail inbox. Kira, what do you like about The Copywriter Underground?

Kira:   So I, I love the monthly hot seat calls where our members have a chance to sit in the hot seat and ask a big question or get ideas, or talk through a challenge in their business. Because we all learn from those situations. And then I also feel like the templates we include in the membership are valuable because who wants to reinvent the wheel and Rob and I end up sharing a lot of the templates and resources we use in our own businesses. So, I would definitely want to grab those.

Rob:   So if you are interested in joining a community of copywriters that are investing in their business and in themselves, and trying to do more, get more clients, earn more money consistently, go to to learn more. Now back to the program.

Kira:   Yeah, so do you have any examples you could share from your clients or maybe even a personal experience of how breath work or sound or any of these examples worked and changed someone? Maybe it changed their business.

Ron:   Absolutely. I have clients, people go, ‘What kind of clients come and do all this?’ And I go, ‘All kinds. Anybody who wants to take their life to a next level.’ So I have lots of CEOs and that kind of corporate client. I have tons of artists, actors, singers, writers and then I also have blue collar workers. Farming and police men who want to learn how … Why have they come to me? Because of literally the clients that I am teaching and nurturing who get so much more connected to themselves and the changes are so palpable that they go out in their lives and everybody’s like, what is going on with you? You are so much more calmer and so much freer and so much more effusive in sharing yourself and they tell them about me, and that is how I’ve literally stayed jammed pack for 22 years and I’ve never advertised once.

So let me give you an example of someone who came to me. I’ll just call her Deborah. That’s not her name. I’ll just call her Deborah. She came and was very frustrated. Caught in her head. Didn’t trust herself. She had a small company. It was a cleaning company. And, she was barely making ends meet and she didn’t understand how to break out of the pattern. Once we got her connected and flowing and trusting that she could be seen and she could be heard and that there was a safe space for her to loosen up, starting with the breath. Eventually sharing more and more of herself. She literally created such a flow that she discovered gifts and levels of creativity that she had no clue was in there. She eventually shifted her company and then sold it, and ended up being a very high level officer at three different banks in New York City. Sought after by each one because she ended up being a profound team leader. A profound guide and somebody who knew how to hold a nurturing space for the people, therefore, the productivity that she was getting out of her teams was amazing.

That is one example. On my website, I probably … I don’t know. I probably published about 50 testimonials of people who say things like, ‘I thought I had it all figured out. But once I started working with you, I realized I’d barely begun to scratch the surface of what is possible.’ So many things we can talk about the way it helped relationships. As an example, I say to people, when they come in for couple sessions, ‘Can you name five relationships that you think are profound? That are truly connected? That grow and that go from level to level or depth to depth and constantly get better?’ And no one has been able to say so. But literally from this work, people that come in and have a similar approach and learn how to get connected to self and so much more comfortable to create an intimacy that becomes a shared intimacy, I can name tons of couples that are having that kind of profound growth.

So it’s not just for creative output in your business. It impacts every part of your life. Certainly, the creative impulse for copywriters, et cetera.

Rob:   I want to shift gears just a little bit and we can come back to some of this stuff, but I know that you have visited a lot of sacred sites around the world as you traveled. And I’m curious about your experiences there, what you learned from several of those or choose a couple. But what are the impacts the travel and being in those places has had on your own journey and life experience?

Ron:   So do I have permission to jump into some woo-woo?

Rob:   You mean we haven’t already been there?

Kira:   Whoa.

Ron:   Actually, we haven’t.

Kira:   Let’s do it. Let’s do it.

Ron:   All of what we’ve talked about so far is simply getting in touch with yourself, and nurturing yourself and moving energy. That is literally the most practical, natural thing that is the least woo-woo thing in the world. Why does it seem woo-woo? Because we haven’t been doing a healthy connection to the inner self. It is literally perfect that you said, ‘Isn’t that woo-woo?’ All I hear you saying is that’s outside of my familiar approach to life, and that’s exactly what I discovered in my career performing. I was like, I’m not in touch with that. I’ve lost touch with what really matters to me and so I learned how to do these practical inner connections. They just aren’t the typical thing. But, I can go to woo-woo, that is actually practical for me, so I promised I would stay near the trunk most of the time, but I’m going to go out on a-

Kira:   Let’s go. Let’s do it.

Ron:   A really beautiful limb. When I went to New York City to make my debut at Lincoln Center, I ended up meeting a gentleman who had had a near death experience. He was starting to experience a ton of things in his life that were shifting that were way out of my normal, what I was used to in life. But I adored discovering. I just always test the new things that I venture into to make sure they feel authentic to me. Well, literally four months into knowing this gentleman who became my business partner for 22 years, he ended up having another mystical experience when he went in to meditate and he ended up channeling for the very first time. Now, I don’t really care about talking about the phenomenon of channeling. It’s not so relevant to our inspiring copywriters, how to get more in the flow of creativity. But I did have this opportunity, and I tested it in every way possible. And, the being that came through in this channeling was so loving and grounded and intelligent and clear.

I would have been foolish not to pay attention. And over 22 years, thousands of hours of information about how to resolve the wounded lower self, how to understand what’s going on in the planet, why it’s accelerating and changing more in the last 30 years than in the last thousands of years. Why is this happening? And so, one of the things that we began to receive education about was this is all about energy. Just like moving energy in your own body, the planet is also accelerating from one level of consciousness, opening to a new level of consciousness. It’s just the acceleration of energy. There are a bunch of events they are going to be taking place from sacred sites which were built in these particular locations, because of the energy that comes together.

Just like we have nerves that come together, that form a [ganglia 00:35:04] of cells, that becomes a bigger configuration of energy in our nervous system, the planet also has a nervous system. And they are called ley lines. L-E-Y. And these energies come together at certain points, just like our bodies, and people who have been sensitive to energies have built places like the Great Pyramid of Egypt. Machu Picchu, Peru. The Potala Palace in Tibet. These are sacred sites, and we were guided to go and bring focus to these energetic events that were taking place, and we literally built an audience of people that joined in to worldwide meditations, millions of people over 16 years.

So, I’ve jumped in to some woo-woo, but the bottom line is, going to those sacred sites and having those experiences in very accelerated energy, convinced me unlike ever before, what is possible. Sure, I know that me going out into the world now with all of this information and 22 years of experience, will stretch people but hopefully inspire people that so much more is possible and we’re all connected to life in such a different way. It’s very practical. It’s just outside of what’s familiar. And so it is my great privilege to get to share tons of those experiences and the things that happened while we were on those journeys, et cetera.

Kira:   Can you share some of those sacred sites?

Ron:   You mean the locations?

Kira:   Yeah. The location.

Ron:   Yep. Many people might have heard of the words chakras, which are the seven energy centers of our physical bodies, and we have seven energy centers on the planet that are the primary reflections of that on a macrocosmic level. And so, those energy centers are Tibet. Lhasa, Tibet, where we did a really cool worldwide meditation on the top of the Potala Palace. I want to share a quick story about that one. China took over Tibet. They outlawed doing any kind of ceremonies. Well, we went to do a worldwide meditation ceremony on the top of the Potala Palace. We were immediately surrounded by the Chinese army with machine guns. We kept doing what we were doing. Our guide was talking to the head of the regiment that came in to surround us. They ended up being so moved by what we were doing, that they all put their guns down, sat there for about an hour, then said to us, ‘It’s time for the Potala Palace to close. But we don’t want to interrupt. So just close that gate on your way out.’ That kind of thing happened constantly on these journeys.

So the Potala Palace is the first one. Egypt, the Giza Plateau is the second one. Stonehenge in England is the third one. The fourth one is Machu Picchu, Peru. We went to those primary sites and then we went to a bunch of others like Bali, the Mayan ruins, India, Nepal. Thinking through. There were a bunch like that. All ancient sacred sites, and those are now flooded with tourists who are drawn, whether they know it or not, to go and spend time in that kind of energy and the difference between 20 years ago when we began, and the levels of people and now, the flooded numbers of people that are in those sites is pretty remarkable.

Kira:   Wow. So you mentioned understanding what is possible. So what is possible? What do you see is possible from your experiences? I know that’s kind of an open ended question, but I’m just curious.

Ron:   Well, it’s very cool question and I will keep it as simple and practical as possible. In my opinion, my experience is a better way to say it, most people are in that survival level of life. It’s like reaching a certain grade and going, that’s all there is. Because that’s all people have been modeling and therefore, that’s what I’ll grow to and then I’ll just outer focus. And I don’t really tap my deeper personal potentials. I don’t really trust that I have this immediacy or connection to life. I just go through my life and do my thing. So this survival level of life is often very ruled by buried layers of fear, shame and judgment. And that’s why we’re so stuck up in our heads.

When you begin to open the three levels of consciousness that begin to become possible, are the wonder of child consciousness, where we see, where we open and feel safe enough like we did prior to learning to close ourselves down, we open to the wonder of life and the magic of life. That doesn’t have to be woo-woo at all. It can just be fascinated by the miracle that life and creation is. So we open to the wonder of child consciousness, and then we move into the empowerment of adult consciousness where we are aware of our inner selves. We trust what is important to us, what moves us, what our priorities are. We are true to that self. We express that self. We create clear relationships out of that self. We have true intimacy and we feel safe to go deeper, and deeper, and deeper into our careers, our relationships, et cetera. Then there’s a third level which is the greatness of soul consciousness. That is actually a very practical, grounded realm of energy that is inside each one of us.

Now if I said to you as a six year old, ‘There’s an adult inside you.’ You would freak out. You wouldn’t know what that meant. You would have no reference point to what the potentials of an adult would equal when you are just six. But when you become experienced and grow over time, then you naturally awaken more and more of your potentials, and so even at a survival level, there’s more adult potential tapped and trusted that you couldn’t have imagined as a six year old. Well, the soul is the same thing. If I now say to you, ‘There’s a soul inside you.’ It is so much more depth and richness where we open to a level of energetic intimacy with each other. We open to gifts like being clairvoyant, clairsentient, clairaudient. All that means is a heightened sense of our feeling, our seeing, our sense of intuition and connection. I’ll leave it at that as far as the practical overview, but so dang much more is possible than I even imagined when I began.

I’ve been expanding into that, teaching others how to expand into that for 22 full time years now, and I can’t wait to see what opens in the next 22 years of continuing to expand because it is so much more meaningful. So much more authentic. So much more immediate, and in the moment, to go back to your earlier question, Rob, than anything that I had imagined. It is so beautiful, and safe, and possible when we have clear information, a clear map, and some tools to begin to access all of that.

Rob:   Okay. So, let’s bring it all together before we finish up here, as we run out of time. If you had one overarching message that we could share with our audience, primarily copywriters, all kinds of levels of experience, different struggled in their lives, what would that overarching message be?

Ron:   Trust getting in touch with you. Trust looking inside and getting in touch with the seeds of what is meaningful to you, what matters to you, what you’re passionate about, what you would most like to say if you didn’t have fear, and get in touch with those initial ideas of self and see how safe you are to begin putting those out on the page. Even if you don’t decide to publish them or put them out to begin with. Get in touch with you, because I believe way more than being successful at a particular career, that we are all here, ultimately, to learn how to connect to self, champion self, nurture self, value self and celebrate self and that beautiful way of writing and expressing yourself gives you a major head start, rather than a career that doesn’t encourage that kind of connection and expression.

Kira:   So this last question is a little bit different than what we’ve been talking about, but I’m curious to hear your thoughts about the future of online marketing. What do you think the future of online marketing looks like?

Ron:   I think that we have seen constant, constant change expansion. I think that online has given a voice to more individuality, a place for more people to tap in and explore the things that interest them, et cetera, et cetera, and I think that online marketing is going to need to tap into the humanity that truly becomes so authentic and inspiration and real, and vulnerable, more than an attempt to sell something. It’s an attempt to enhance. An attempt to relate. An attempt to come together in needs that we all share.

Rob:   I think that’s awesome. So, Ron, if someone wanted to connect with you or find out more about you, where should they go?

Ron:   They should go to, and there is a ton there. I will encourage that there are two free guided meditations that you’ll find on the homepage there that will give you some more practical ways to begin to get in touch with your inner self and to free some of that, and I hope that you will get your toe wet and you’ll explore more fully, because 100% of my clients that choose to explore in this way blossom consistently in ways that surprise them, and that enhance the quality of their lives. So,

Kira:   Thank you, Ron. This has been a really interesting conversation and I’m definitely going to try some breathing exercises and try to integrate that into my day. So I really appreciate you showing up and sharing with us.

Ron:   Awesome. Thank you for the opportunity.

You’ve been listening to The Copywriter Club Podcast with Kira Hug, and Rob Marsh. Music for the show is a clip from Gravity by Whitest Boy Alive, available in iTunes. If you like what you’ve heard, you can help us spread the word by subscribing in iTunes and by leaving a review. For show notes, a full transcript, and links to our free Facebook community, visit We’ll see you next episode.




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