TCC Podcast #338: Thought Partnership with Corrie Myers - The Copywriter Club
TCC Podcast #338: Thought Partnership with Corrie Myers

Corrie Myers is a website copywriter and messaging strategist who acts as a thought partner for her clients. After 15 years in the education field, she made the shift to copy and has found ways to incorporate her leadership and teaching expertise into her business. She’s built a successful business over the last few years by leading with empathy and setting clear boundaries.

Here’s how the conversation goes:

  • Corrie’s career shift from teacher to copywriter.
  • Building a business as a parent of three and how she balances work and life.
  • The skills she’s brought from her teaching career into copywriting.
  • Why she treats her own business as a client and why you should, too.
  • The benefits of having less hours to do something.
  • How she built confidence in making big life changes.
  • Being a thought partner for your clients – how do you position yourself as the go-to?
  • How the Think Tank has helped transform Corrie’s business.
  • Why you should pinpoint gaps your clients might miss.
  • How she determines the types of clients she works with.
  • Where she finds leads and projects during unprecedented times and what she leans on during periods of unknown.
  • How her pricing has evolved since the beginning of her business and how she packages her offers.
  • Why day rates are helpful in getting your foot in the door for long-term work.
  • How to selll a day rate or retainer.
  • The subtle shift in language Corrie uses to position herself as the strategist.
  • The messy middle – how do you trudge through?
  • How AI has impacted her business and maximized her energy by being a way to “chop vegetables.”

Tune into the episode by hitting play or checking out the transcript.

The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:

The Copywriter Think Tank
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
Corrie’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground
Free month of Brain.FM

Full Transcript:

Rob Marsh:  There is a challenge facing most copywriters that many of us struggle to deal with, and that is how do I stand out from the massive other copywriters and content writers who offer sales pages, emails, case studies, and all of the other things that we help our clients with? And for the most part, any copywriter can probably figure out how to do a decent job writing just about any project deliverable.

And, yes, I know I’m probably oversimplifying here to make the point, but our guest on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is copywriter and Think Tank member Corrie Myers. And as we talk with Corrie, she shared a ton of details about her business. Perhaps, most importantly, she talked about showing up not just as a copywriter, but as a thought partner for your clients. It’s an approach that has helped her stay fully booked over the last year, while many other copywriters have struggled to find clients. And it’s an approach that a lot of us could use in our own businesses.

Kira Hug:  But before we jump into the interview, this episode is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank, which is our Mastermind for copywriters and marketers who want to figure out the next thing in their business, that could be new revenue streams or it could be a new idea or podcast or so many different ideas. I’m not even going to promote it right now, because Corrie talks about it with us in this conversation. So you’ll get to hear from her what her experience was like in the Think Tank, and you can also hear the results of what she’s been able to do while being in the Think Tank. And so I think that’s truly the best promo for the Mastermind.

We also had a chance to talk about the retreats. I know Corrie got a lot out of our most recent retreat in New Orleans. And I’m just going to mention that we do have Think Tank retreats coming up. In June, we have a virtual retreat, and then in September we’re traveling to London for an in-person retreat, because similar to Corrie, we believe that the power in business growth and all types of growth, it all happens when you’re together in person at these types of retreats. So if you have any interest in our Think Tank and becoming a new member, you can visit Okay, let’s kick off our episode with Corrie.

Corrie Myers:  Well, in, what was it? January of 2019, I was pregnant and teaching full-time, and wrote on a little, it wasn’t a fancy vision board, it was just a real basic notepad of my goals for 2019. And it was to explore other career opportunities. And I had a couple goals within that to reach out to people who had explored other careers outside of teaching. And then by the time I went back to work after maternity leave, I was also a copywriter. So that’s kind of how I got into it, was deciding to explore it. And then six months later I was doing it.

Rob Marsh:  That’s really concise. So let’s talk about what you were teaching, and why you felt the need to maybe move on. And I know you were doing more than teaching, you were doing counseling, you were doing more than just showing up as a teacher. So tell us about that experience.

Corrie Myers:  I was a high school English teacher for 15 years and a department chair and helped lead programs. And so many of the programs that I led were about helping students develop their passion and explore what they were good at outside of what everyone said they should do. And I just remember one day standing there for so long teaching had been that passion for me. And then we were reading The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho and I was talking them through what it feels like to love what you do. And I had this moment where I realized I didn’t love this as much as I used to.

And so that was a real starting point for me to explore what also could be. I’ve always wanted to write, I just didn’t know that I could do that outside of writing a book that gets published. So that was the starting point. And then just sort of the seed that was planted. And then, obviously, I loved what I did, helping students, supporting them with their very big challenges. But it just became a little bit too much, to be honest.

It’s a lot to carry, especially at that time I was also pregnant, and so you’re caring for your own kids as well as everyone else’s needs. And so I wanted something honestly that was a little bit less emotionally taxing. Because I have a big heart and I can’t separate, I couldn’t drive home and leave my student’s needs at home, so I needed something different. That’s a little bit of what started that, let’s explore something else.

Kira Hug:  What happens when you realize you don’t love something anymore and you have that light bulb moment? Which I think is precious in many ways because some people just don’t have that moment at all, or it takes too long to get to that moment. So what happens after you have that moment? What do you do? What do you put into play?

Corrie Myers:  It’s definitely scary. Especially, if you… I mean, I started teaching when I was 22. I hadn’t done anything else career wise, and so it’s scary. And then sometimes it feels too self-indulgent, especially if you’re going to change careers when you’re pretty deep into it. And so what it feels like once you make that decision is you do kind of have to decide, is this… I think a lot of times, particularly in the helping profession, we hold ourselves back from pursuing something that we are passionate about, because we feel a call, we feel a level of responsibility to help people.

And that’s really noble, but it’s also not sustainable if deep inside that there’s something else. And so it really was just sort of being brave enough to keep going and telling the right people. I talked to my therapist at the time. And I really had to get comfortable with the idea myself first, because I knew that it would not be easy for everybody else with that change. So I think that’s the biggest step is making sure that you are super confident why you’re wanting to make a change and okay that it’s for you.

Rob Marsh:  Okay. So you know you want to make this change. You wrote it down on a notepad, so you’ve kind of got the goal out there. But you didn’t write, I’m going to be a copywriter. You said, “Explore other options.” What other options were you thinking about? Where did your brain go as you started that exploratory process?

Corrie Myers:  Well, having been in education, I knew the options I had there. So within that I had two people that I wanted to meet with, one who was a copywriter and one who was in administration moving into education consulting. And so those were my ideas. I really didn’t know what copywriting was outside of what my friend was doing. And so the other options were what else can I do as an educational leader? So that looked like working at the district office level or working for a consulting agency outside of it.

But that didn’t feel like it was going to tap the creative energy that I wanted. Because as much as I wanted out of the classroom, I loved the creativity that I got to have with the students. And sometimes if you stay in education, I mean, you get out of the classroom, but you lose some of the best parts of it. So it just –

Rob Marsh:  I have a friend who did that exact process. He went from the classroom to the district level. He hated it, even more money and all of that. And the next year he was back in a classroom, he was like, “Nope, I wasn’t doing it for any of the bureaucracy, I was doing it for the kids.” So yeah, that rings true as you talk about that process.

Corrie Myers:  And then honestly just at that time, another big factor for me as a mom of young kids was the time factor. And as soon as you get into administration, your time just doubles and triples. And so even though the salary technically increases, your working hours are just exponentially larger. So that was just not what I wanted for this season.

Kira Hug:  How do you distinguish between a calling and then a selfish self-interest? How do you navigate between the two of them? Because I think it can be really confusing at times, especially for people who are called to help other people. At least it feels confusing for me, it’s like, “Well, is this something I really want to do? Or is this something I feel like I have to do?” And how do you know? It seems like you figured it out pretty well.

Corrie Myers:  I think it really has to do with the season of life you’re in. So yes, teaching was my calling for a long time, but once I had my first son and my second son, my priorities shifted. And so I think you really have to… Whether you have kids or you’re a caretaker or you just are realizing stuff about yourself, you might need more attention, and I think that is the calling. So whatever feels aligned to you, it can’t just always be, I mean, yes, your purpose may be to do this thing to help other people, but if at the end of the day your wellbeing is being sacrificed, then that’s not a true calling.

I mean, that’s just not sustainable. And so, to me, where it comes from is what season are you in at that point in your life? And I think that’s true in my business right now. It’s not just like, “I do this for these people,” it really is about the season of life I’m in. And that determines how I run my business. Because obviously, it’s part of why I got into freelancing, but I think just generally that process is more sustainable than saying, “Stake in the ground, this is what I’m going to do for the rest of my life, because this is my one true calling.”

Rob Marsh:  Seems to me there’s a lot of teachers who go on in their careers to become copywriters. We’ve definitely talked to a few of them on the podcast. So Corrie, as you think about the skills that you had and used as a teacher, how do those translate to what you do with copywriting? So I know you’re not necessarily counseling 15-year-olds, but you’re counseling clients there. I can see some lines, but tell me where you see the lines are.

Corrie Myers:  I always said that, “As a teacher, all the big news stories that you see that people are arguing about, talking about your experience in the classroom just with one group of 40 students. There’s so many different issues that kids are dealing with that are very, very real.” And so you quickly learn that you can’t just plow your way, obviously, through a lesson plan and assume that they’re going to fall in line. And I think it’s that mindset that everyone is carrying so much through the door.

And so, yes, my client presents this way, but really there’s something else going on. If they’re not responding to an email, I understand there’s so much more going on. Or if they are more tense in an email, I understand that there’s probably more than just me. So on the soft skills side, it’s just understanding what it means to be human. And I think that has helped. I think time management has been a big factor for me, because as a teacher, at least at the high school level, you have one 60 minute prep period to do everything. And so you learn to just get really quick. So that has definitely helped me on a practical level to be efficient with my workflow.

Kira Hug:  Do you have time management advice for us? Especially, if we do not have teaching experience, we have not worked within those parameters and we struggle with it, what have you done really well that has helped you?

Corrie Myers:  I don’t have an app that I’m going to live and die by or a particular technique. It’s just constantly, every day identifying the priorities for that day and being realistic about what can get done. So I just have always, from probably my second or third year teacher, had a little sticky note of the things that have to get done in order of priority and I’m pretty good about thinking about that throughout the day.

And that’s a very simple technique, but just keeping that top of mind. Because it’s very easy to get distracted by the 10 other things we want to do or that we need to get done that week. So it generally speaking, each day I’m prioritizing the order of importance. Obviously, starting with client work, which I’m trying to also include my own business as a client, is using that very simple priority approach.

Rob Marsh:  So while we’re talking about this, I know you’ve done a lot of thinking about how to parent while running a business, especially with small kids, but I think you’ve gone beyond just small kids. Tell us about some of your thoughts around this. I know you’re even thinking about maybe a podcast in the future on this topic, so by throwing that into the world, I’m going to make sure that it actually happens. But-

Corrie Myers:  Okay, great.

Rob Marsh:  …tell us about how parents make it work from your side of the fence. How do you do it? And how do you see other people doing it?

Corrie Myers:  Well, it is kind of what I mentioned earlier, very relative to that season. So this last year we had another baby, and a baby season changes everything. And there’s such a distinct difference between having a three-month-old and having a 15-month-old. And it seems like it shouldn’t be that big of a difference, but it’s pretty huge. And so I think the first is, I think, I always have to be very patient with myself, because I want to be 10 steps ahead of where I am. And I think I can, my energy can, but I think I used to be able to get more done. But when you’re in a young kid’s season, there’s just a lot that’s outside of your control. The kids are up all night or they’re dealing with their third sickness of the season. And so I think it’s recognizing your own limitations. And then that really just forces your priorities, which is not easy to do. So I think maybe it’s an ego thing also. That’s how moms make it work is they have to figure out what they want to get done and can get done, and when it’s just not the right time, when it’s a different time.

So another big factor is having the right help. So my spouse, my husband is really supportive and we have always had a very shared approach to things. So just practically, I make the meal plan, he goes to the grocery store, little things like that help. And then another big one is just being in community with other parents who are in a similar season, whether that’s professionally or with your kids, because you need wisdom from other people.

Kira Hug:  I want to make sure, we’ll probably go back to that and dig in a little bit deeper, but I want to paint the picture of your business, because I feel like we’re talking about your business and about all the things you’re doing and how amazing you are. But you’ve accomplished so much in your business already, a relatively young copywriting business. Can you just brag a little bit about what you’ve built, what it looks like today given that you have a 15-month-old and two other kids and you left teaching not too long ago, what does it look like?

Corrie Myers:  It looks like, I mean, the biggest win for me is that this is my third year in business and I feel like I’m really at this place. And obviously, I mean, we’ve talked about the Think Tank and particularly the Think Tank retreat really helped me get there. I think, for me, my biggest win right now is the clarity I have around who I am and what I do, even if it’s not as niche as some other copywriters are. So there’s the clarity piece, and that has come from the work we’ve done in the Think Tank. And also the financial and sort of obvious wins really do build that confidence to have that clarity.

So I think my first 10K month was while I was still teaching and just hitting that it was a huge confidence booster just to see, “Oh my gosh, this is possible. This is actually possible to make this a career, not just a side hustle.” And then this last year, I remember when we first met to talk through what our goals were for the year. I didn’t even say the actual goal that I wanted, because that felt, I don’t know, maybe just silly. It felt silly to say I actually wanted to make that.

And then last November I remember I was like, “Oh, my gosh, I am really close to hitting six figures.” And we were on a call, I was saying, “I really want the slow season in December, but also inside I’m a hustler and I want to do this, because I feel like it’s within reach.” And you were like, “Okay, you can do it.” And you were right. And within just telling the right people, which is another big win I think for my business is just the community that I’ve built. That is leveraging the community I had before I was a copywriter and weaving that into now, it makes me look forward to, obviously, I don’t have the entire 2023 booked out, but I feel confident with the network I’ve built.

So hitting six figures last year was a big win. And just seeing what else I could do and just freeing myself up to be more creative with other things besides just one-on-one client work, which I still love doing, but wanting to be able to tap into other aspects of myself that I feel like are just kind of waiting.

Rob Marsh:  Okay. So while we’re talking about hitting that six figures, I’m curious, comparing it to what you were doing before with teaching, are you working about the same number of hours? And so I’m guessing it’s pretty close to double your income. I don’t know exactly what you were making as a teacher, but is it close to the same hours? Is it less hours? Is it more hours? How has that all broken out in your business?

Corrie Myers:  That was my biggest dream was to work significantly less. Because when I left I was working 80%, but for the majority of my career I was 100% full-time, which is at least 50 hours a week, if you’re going to do a decent job. You have to work way over contract hours to be a good teacher, which is the reality. And so what I wanted, I wanted more autonomy over my time, and that has happened.

So again, just the season I’m in, that has kind of dictated it. So I’m really working between 20 to 30 hours a week, but it’s usually closer to 20. I have 20 hours worth of childcare than I fit other little things in. So that was a huge win for me that I’ve been able to stick to that. And sometimes I don’t know how I do it, but when you only have that time, you just make it happen. So…

Rob Marsh:  The math on that is half the time and almost-

Corrie Myers:  Yes.

Rob Marsh:  …double the salary, which is pretty amazing.

Kira Hug:  Well, to someone listening who’s like, “Okay, really, how did you do that? Because that sounds miraculous,” can you break down some of the things you’ve done that have helped you. You mentioned community network, you have a strong community, but what else have you done over the last year or two that’s helped?

Corrie Myers:  I said yes before I felt fully confident. And that was whether I was saying yes to projects or putting myself out there in terms of bigger projects. That was obviously saying yes to the Think Tank. I mean, I told you guys I was nine months pregnant when I said, “Rob, can I join a Think Tank next year?” Because my business was headed in the right direction, and then I was essentially closing it down for a few months. And this being my third child, I knew what I would need in this season and that I can’t do it all. I can’t also develop my own business strategy and do great work. I needed other experienced people to help me with that side.

So I think number one was knowing what I needed and I knew I needed that guidance. And then I had been listening to you guys since 2019 when I was commuting to work and figuring out what a copywriter was. So that was sort of a no-brainer for me joining the Think Tank. And obviously I had the encouragement of people who came before me, the good work they had done. So in terms of what has really helped the last couple years, it was identifying what I needed help in most. And then I got that.

I’m not a coarse junkie, so I am pretty intentional with that, because I actually don’t know why. I’m like, I’m not going to waste time on something. So I knew it wasn’t courses. I knew I needed the community. I knew that that’s what I wanted and what I’m good at is connecting with people. And so taking advantage of the community that you guys have created and the Think Tank has been huge.

And honestly, I wish there were five more in-person retreats for the Think Tank, because that was huge, that was only two months ago and I’m still feeling huge impacts from that. So that has moved the needle a lot for me to feel a little bit more like I have a grown up business. Even though it’s three years old, I feel so much more confident even when I know things are not all figured out.

Kira Hug:  I want to jump in and ask about the retreat, because I know it did help you. And can you just speak to what happens at a retreat for anyone who’s not familiar, and it’s just like, “Well, what actually happens?” How does that help your business grow?

Corrie Myers:  Well, I think we’re still in the coming out of the pandemic era where group interactions still feel a little bit vulnerable, because we just aren’t… at least with strangers, people we only know on the internet. So I think that level of vulnerability and having everybody say yes to that just creates a setting for really great work, because everyone is putting themselves out there. Saying, “I want to learn and grow and this is uncomfortable.” So that kind of lays the groundwork.

Obviously, for our situation, we had work with had relationships going into it. So that was a huge win knowing that we were going to connect with people there. But when you know that you’re in a group of people and everyone’s there feeling a little bit nervous, have big questions around what is going to come out of this, it’s a very encouraging environment to test things out.

So one example is we did the hot seat, which you offer hot seats every month, and I’ve done them before. And I did not go in thinking I needed one, but you were offering it. And I was like, “I flew halfway across the country, left my children, I should find something that these experts can help me with. That would be a smart choice.”

So I even tried to get out of it and you’re like, “well, we have the time.” And I think just that, for me, not having a big plan of what I wanted to get out of that retreat was probably the best choice. Because then I just let the genius of everybody else and the things that they were sharing just bring out very organically what I needed to work on. And the hot seat really kind of set the tone for the growth that I needed, in particular, that weekend. And so people asking hard questions and you having to answer them on the spot, it’s a good method.

Rob Marsh:  And you also presented at that retreat on a topic that I found really insightful and idea provoking, for me at least. And I think it was for everyone else there. Tell us a little bit about that as well. You don’t necessarily have to give the whole talk, but just the kernel for what you shared and some of the ways that you approach your business when it comes to expertise and showing up as a thought or an idea person.

Corrie Myers:  Yes. And this kind of goes back to one of the reasons I chose the Think Tank was because I also didn’t know exactly what I wanted. I didn’t know that I wanted to launch a podcast, didn’t know I wanted to sell a product. I wanted the freedom to figure it out. And so even just Kira inviting me to speak was exciting, because that wasn’t something I knew I wanted to pursue. And so that’s a new idea that I am adding to my repertoire of what I want to do for me and my business.

But the idea of a thought partner really is being a collaborator with your clients. When we think about working one-on-one, sometimes it can be really just like, I do this project and it’s done, we move forward. But because of my background of working with students and families long term, I love the sort of lifecycle of a relationship with the people you’re working with.

And I have seen the benefits, just on personal levels with students and families and what we could do in my previous career, not just viewing my role as siloed from the parent. And so using that same example with clients, it’s not just my work that I’m doing for their work, it’s our work that we’re doing together.

And when you see people like that, when you see business owners for all that they’re offering, their wisdom, their experience, who they are as a human being, I mean, I think that’s what they really want. I think especially when you’re working with solo entrepreneurs, which are typically my bread and butter, they just want to be seen for who they are and validated that their idea is good, that they are unique. Our work, even just when they’re filling out the onboarding questionnaire, oftentimes, they’re like, “That was so emotional for me,” and it’s really vulnerable to put yourself out there and say all these things about my business and here’s what I need to work on.

And so when you are on that other side viewing yourself as a partner in this big idea that they’re trying to bring forth, it goes a long way. And not just what I mentioned on the retreat was that it’s not just for the heart, it’s also proven to be really helpful for retaining clients, for getting new clients, for having clients come back to me. And so that thought partner approach is both, I think, a wise approach in working with clients and what they need. And then also practically for my business.

Kira Hug:  Can you give some specific examples of how I can apply that? So I’m like, okay, this makes sense. Clearly this is working for Corrie. How can I be a thought partner to my current clients so that I can retain them because I’m losing my clients?

Corrie Myers:  On a practical level throughout the conversation, I don’t limit myself just to web copy or just email or just brand voice guides. I kind of see what they need. And so throughout the time when I see a gap that I could fill, I mention it just softly, so that it’s not just at the end, or it doesn’t just feel like a pitch, it’s sort of woven through. So that helps, because they know what else I can do. When I see an opportunity for them to be encouraged, which sounds really simple, but I do think with that vulnerability piece when we’re working with clients, when I see an opportunity to encourage them, I take it.

Because even if it feels a little bit, I guess, like fluffy, I take it because I think people need to be encouraged. I think every human being needs to be encouraged in what they’re doing. And so I find a way to thoughtfully do it and not in a way that feels trite. It feels very specific to them. So I find ways to weave in how I can help them, practically speaking, and then I find ways to weave in how I can encourage them. And that comes through with the offboarding as well, obviously, the offboarding survey, but just encouraging them as they move on to the next phase of their business.

Kira Hug:  All right, Rob, why don’t you start? What did you take away from this part of the conversation?

Rob Marsh:  What stood out to me first is when Corrie started talking about wanting to do something less emotionally taxing. And the discussion around being an educational leader and what are the opportunities for somebody who’s an educational leader? Because I think I look at us as copywriters, as teachers, as educational leaders, as helping people learn about new products that can help them or services that can help change their lives.

And so listening to her talk about that really stood out. And then you, Kira, asked about the calling versus the job. And I think there’s a really interesting discussion here, not just with Corrie, but just out in the world. Some of us do feel like copywriting is a calling. For others of us, it is a means to make the thing that is our calling, maybe it’s family or maybe it’s some other kind of mission somebody has in their life, but it becomes the means to support that. And it’s okay to do both. Both approaches are great and copywriting as a vocation works to do both.

Kira Hug:  I think that’s the first time we’ve talked about those two and the pull between the calling where you feel like you want to help others and then pursuing the thing you desire. And like you said, either one could be copywriting. For Corrie, what she desired was to be a copywriter.

I think that struggle is very much real. And I think especially as writers who tend to have more empathy and feel more sensitive to other people’s needs, I think oftentimes we are pulled into careers like teaching to becoming therapists, so many nurturing professions. And so that’s something I think is just worth keeping in mind as I wrestle with those same feelings and those same pulls. And just keeping it in front of mind as far as like, is this your true calling? And when she said, “If you’re sacrificing your wellbeing, then it’s not a true calling. That sacrifice should not be part of the grind every day.” And so that helped separate it for me too.

Rob Marsh:  I can imagine a few people who might see their calling as helping others and they’re really putting a lot of themselves. They really are sacrificing their time, their money, their energy or whatever, but it’s not always a good idea to do it to the point where you’re completely depleted. Because in order to continue with your mission to keep doing it, you’ve also got to be able to take care of yourself.

Kira Hug:  And we also talked about Corrie’s feelings around changing her career. And she mentioned it felt like it was self-indulgent to change her career, because it was already established and stable, and she has a family that she’s taking care of financially. And so I think that’s common, that feeling. And I think that self-indulgent feeling can also pop up when you aren’t necessarily changing careers, but you might just be pivoting in your business. And it’s like, “Oh, who am I to create this new product?” Or, “It feels self-indulgent to change my business because this has been working. So why am I creating something new that might possibly not work?”

And so I think it’s important to kind of recognize when it feels self-indulgent and take Corrie’s steps to work through it. She actually worked through it by looking at all the options before diving in to becoming a copywriter. She talked to colleagues to find out what other options she had. She talked to copywriters. So she did all her research and then she worked her way into really owning the idea of, I am going to be a copywriter, so she could feel confident before bringing everyone else into the fold. Bringing her family and getting them on board, so that it felt like it was the right step forward rather than feeling self-indulgent.

Rob Marsh:  I think that idea, that self-indulgence is something that keeps a lot of us stuck in doing something that we don’t love, because it’s like, “Yeah, this thing is working, it is providing for my family, and it’s selfish of me to want to change that, something that might fail or might not produce as well.” Of course it might produce far better, and so there’s often upside there, but it keeps us stuck.

And anything that keeps us stuck is probably not serving us well. It’s fine to stay where you are if that decision is intentional. But if you are staying where you are because you feel stuck, then maybe there’s some mindset work to be done there.

Kira Hug:  And it’s, also, most of it is not self-indulgent, just like that’s how we speak about it in our culture, but it’s actually not. Okay. So what else stood out to you?

Rob Marsh:  Well, we talked a little bit about time management, but what was interesting is we didn’t talk about calendars or scheduling or anything. We basically just said time management. It’s all really about focusing on priorities. And my thoughts around time management have changed quite a bit over my career. I actually started out my very first writing job, writing for a time management company, and selling products, calendars and day planners and that kind of stuff.

And even then, in order to focus on the things that you want to do most, you’ve got to make sure that you schedule it into the book and all of that. And I think taking a step back from all of that and just saying, “Okay, let’s just focus on the priorities here.” Yeah, it does help to get those things in a calendar, but the basics of time management, making sure that the right things get done first is all about what is most important? And how do I get that done?

Kira Hug:  And prioritizing revenue generating activities, especially for copywriters, many of the ones we talk to regularly, it’s like sometimes we’re identifying the wrong priorities. Or it’s like it’s constantly focused on client delivery, which is important, but then we feel frustrated when we don’t have new clients on board and a business isn’t growing. So for me it’s always like, how do we get focused on revenue? Because if that doesn’t happen, you don’t have a business anymore.

Rob Marsh:  And finally, in this section, at least for me, we talked a little bit about the retreat. We got together and how much it helped Corrie being there in the room. You and I have talked about this many, many times and it’s so hard to express to somebody who hasn’t had this kind of an experience. It’s why you and I belong to Masterminds ourselves. It’s why we created the Think Tank, because getting in the room together makes a massive difference in it’s not just the relationship, it’s almost like there’s magic in the air. And you start to look at your business from a different perspective. And you see what other people are doing.

You say, “wait a second, if somebody else can make that kind of money or create that kind of a product for their niche or operate in this way or use this system,” it just changes the level of thinking. And you heard Corrie talking about how that worked for her business. Even months later, she’s still buzzing about that retreat. And you mentioned the upcoming retreat. So we have one virtual in June and one in London that we’re going to be having, and it’s the same energy.

Kira Hug:  And this is going to sound like a promo for the Think Tank, but whatever. We are here to promote the Think Tank because it’s amazing. But I would recommend, if you want to be a part of a community where you are attending retreats, whether it is Think Tank or another community, I think it’s really, really important to show up at multiple retreats over a set period of time with the same people, and even just the same group leaders and the same members.

Because I think what happens for the two of us, Rob, and being a part of a group over two to three years, so far for the group that we’re in, I get more out of it now because I’m getting to know the people in the room with us. And I really wanted to show up in a bigger way, because they’re holding me accountable in a more powerful way than they could if I met them for the first time at one retreat and then I were to never see them again.

So I think there are different types of retreats. They’re ones that you could attend one off and you can get a lot out of them. But if you’re looking for a retreat that you can be a part of in a community, could be a part of long term, that’s where I get the most out of it. Because I know from the retreat you and I attended in Orlando in, gosh, was that February, you and I left and we were focused. And not just focused, we didn’t lose that steam. We got a lot done since then, launched the new podcast, created a new product, changed our entire team and the systems we’re using. And I think, for me at least, that that energy came from that specific retreat.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah, I think a lot of it does. You make a really good point about the long-term-ness of those relationships, because there’s sometimes a tendency to dip in and out of these kinds of groups. And you’re right, for some reason, the last two of the retreats we’ve gone to with our Mastermind, the one that we belong to, have been better for me simply because the relationships that we have over two or three years have been able to develop. We’re friends with those other business leaders.

They’re more likely and willing to open up about what they’re building because they know us. They’ve gotten to know us, and we know them and have gotten to know them. So you’re right, that long-termness matters. Maybe not for everybody, but for us in particular, for me in particular, being in the same room as those kinds of leaders that I want to be around, that I want to be, that are building businesses that are bigger than mine, taking a couple of years to do it has made all the difference.

Kira Hug:  And I pulled that idea from Ray Edwards. I saw him not too long ago post on social media, and it was like lessons I wish I had known years ago. And one of them that stood out to me was about that. He was like, “I should just join one Mastermind and stick with it for 10 years.” Which you know, and I am not talking about 10 years, but I was like, “Huh, there’s definitely an idea there about going really deep, long term that I think we’re missing in our kind of fast-paced online space that we’re in.” So I think we talked about that enough.

One other idea that I would like to talk about is how Corrie encourages her clients. And it’s such a fun concept that some people may naturally do. I don’t think that… Anyway, I don’t know if I do that naturally, but it’s such a great idea around supporting them and giving them praise because, yes, your clients are paying you, but they also feel really vulnerable and awkward depending on how they’re working with you.

But with a lot of the services we offer, you’re pushing them out of their comfort zone. They want you to do that, but it’s also, they might feel anxious or self-conscious, maybe uncomfortable. And so encouraging them will help them get more out of the experience. It probably will help you be a better service provider because you can deliver a better result. And it probably is what helps Corrie maintain her relationships and her clients long term. And I think that’s a key that it feels kind of fuzzy and warm and fun, but I think there’s something to it that I’m going to pay more attention to moving forward.

Rob Marsh:  I know I said with my last comment, that was the last thing I was going to mention, but I’m going to mention one more, because we did mention it in the introduction, and that is Corrie talked about showing up as a thought partner. Which is kind of an interesting idea, not as a thought leader necessarily, but as a thought partner, which reframes the way that we work with our clients.

When you show up as a thought partner, you are not necessarily taking orders or whatever, you’re actually sharing strategy and ideas and things that your client can use to grow their own authority, their own business. You’re asking questions about the business and not necessarily the product or the service that you’re selling, and you’re really getting to be literally a partner in their business to help them grow. It’s something that more of us need to be doing as copywriters, especially as things like AI start to eat at the bottom level of what we deliver and make it easier to write. We need to be showing up with strategy, with ideas, with things that at least right now, ChatGPT simply can’t do.

Kira Hug:  Yeah, at least right now. All right, let’s get back to our interview with Corrie to find out how she structured her business and the types of clients she enjoys working with.

Rob Marsh:  Okay. I want to go back again to talking more about your business. Tell us a little bit about how you landed on who you serve and the exact kinds of products that you created to help them. So really talking about what is the work that you’re doing in your business and for whom?

Corrie Myers:  Right now I’m landing on, I help people driven companies and really that just means they have a big idea that they really want to do something with that’s bigger than just doing that service. So one example is a boudoir photographer. So yes, there’s lots of photographers out there. She’s a boudoir photographer, a very specific niche, and she really has a passion for the self-empowerment side of it. So that’s a perfect example of, yes, I can write a sales page for this photographer and this course that she’s selling, but she knows that there’s so much more that she’s offering besides the actual course.

And so those are the types of people that I tend to work with. They’re very driven on the actual product that can help, so whether it’s selling a course or building a new website for launching a new company, there’s that immediate goal, but that there’s always the bigger why, and I’m usually aligned with that or can help bring them out. And I think that’s often what sells them is my ability to jump on board with their mission. I’m hesitant to say mission-driven companies, because it tends to sound like a nonprofit, but they are very mission-oriented, the companies I work for.

They have their big idea in mind and it’s bigger than just growing their business revenue. And so I serve them, typically, it’s website copy, that’s what they come for. And then we add in brand voice guides, or sometimes it starts with brand voice guides and then adds in website copy, and then the email sequences that follow. I’ve done quizzes before, and it really just depends on what it is, but typically it’s website copy, brand voice guides, and then email sequences that go with that.

Rob Marsh:  And how do you price those projects? And maybe tell us how that has evolved since you started your business too.

Corrie Myers:  Oh, yeah. I think it needs to be super clear that when you first start out, I know there’s different schools of thought, but I have no problem with charging $40 for a blog, my first website was like $1,500 for me to write all the copy and design it. I don’t know what… That took way too long. So definitely a far cry from there. I’m just writing copy, not also designing. So the last website copy package that I sold was $4500, which is my new rate for that package. Which felt like a big jump, because unless I’m working on a larger website copy project, they’re typically at the $3000 range. But then just by really digging into how much time I spend on the customer interviews and what I add to that, and I’ve gotten better at packaging how I offer that and what that includes.

So website copy’s $4500, brand voice guides range from $2800 to $3500 right now, and depends on what we add to it. So if it becomes more like a brand voice and messaging guide, let’s see where I’m at, I think the biggest one sold is $3500. So that’s about where I’m at. So I just kind of made the decision, I’m not going to sell anything under $2500 unless it’s a day rate, because at this point with all the moving pieces, it’s just not worth my time. And I have enough client workload. And another big aspect for me is I have retainers, I have three solid retainers. And it allows me to curate the projects I say yes to a little bit more, which is a huge bonus as opposed to just saying yes to everything, which I spent a lot of time doing to be clear.

Kira Hug:  I’m wondering if you just answered part of my next question, but I’m just thinking about these weird times we’re in where copywriters, many of them, are losing clients, retainer clients, startups left and right, and it’s just a difficult time for many copywriters. And so you have stayed busy, your rosters stayed full. There are many things you’re doing right, which is why we’re talking to you.

You’ve already mentioned the thought partner, that type of collaboration and that’s helped you retain clients long term. But I’m wondering what else you’re doing that other copywriters could follow, other tips, action steps you’re taking that other copywriters could also follow, just so that they can book more clients during this difficult time.

Corrie Myers:  Yes, I 100% hear that. And honestly, in January when I saw what was happening to my leads and just projects not closing, it’s kind of why I said yes to a couple more retainers. This time last year, I was like, “Oh my gosh, I want less retainers. I don’t want that ongoing.” But I kind of saw the writing on the wall, obviously with our economy and then just again, the season I’m in, I wanted that financial stability. And so even though at one point I said, “I’m not going to do blogs anymore,” to me, this opportunity to take on a retainer project that had more blogs was worth it because it was going to allow me the creativity to do other projects. So for me, what has worked the most is leveraging the network and community I already have.

So I’m not cold pitching, I’m reaching out to existing or past clients, and that could just be a check-in. I haven’t formally pitched to a previous client, but just keeping in contact and looking at those lead sources. So I’m staying in contact with previous clients and then staying top of mind with them. So if I were to tell somebody else who’s starting out a career or feeling like their pipeline is not full, you look at the people who already love you and ask them. I mean, we just need to be reminded… I need to be reminded about almost everything in my life like five times. So maybe somebody just needs help and they need someone to remind them they can help them.

So you never know who has a new idea or something they want to launch this season. And so I would absolutely just send an email, reconnecting, checking in, see how they’re doing, how that last project that you worked on is going, and if you can help. You have to capitalize on your strengths and the time you have, so for me, it was, I already have this deep bench of people that I am connected with, and so I’m going to connect with them and see if we can find something that is aligned.

And so with the retainer client that I said yes to in January, we have a six-month contract, and it’s my biggest retainer. We had worked together before, and so I knew exactly what it would be like working with them and just kind of reconnected on where they were at with something. And she followed up with an ask, and then we worked out the details. So…

Rob Marsh:  As you think about your business in the future, obviously you’ve got a couple of retainers, so you’re not worried about filling every single hour, but what are the things that you are doing, Corrie, to make sure that you are top of mind or that people can find you when they start looking? Where do you go to do all of that marketing for yourself?

Corrie Myers:  Yes. So this is a big stressor. I was like, “Okay, I need to figure out what my marketing plan is. I should go on LinkedIn because people pay more there.” And I always felt so uncomfortable on LinkedIn. By the way, if you’re a teacher listening to this, start your LinkedIn account now. I don’t know what happened to our profession, but teachers did not join LinkedIn. And so we look like we don’t know anybody. We have no background, which is unfortunate.

So I finally just landed on, again, the season I’m in, I don’t have a lot of extra time to create new content. And so most of my lead sources are on Instagram, and that felt like the easiest. And so the leads that I typically get, and then I am connected with, so the lead sources, so the people I’ve worked with that send me work, they’re on Instagram, that’s already where I am naturally. And so I’ve just stayed there.

I also have a very tiny email list, but the right people are on it. And so it stays top of mind with those right people who want me for another day rate. Or which is another, I would say, practically speaking, if you’re looking for a quick way to get a new project in your pipeline, the day rate for me has been a great way to… It’s a lower risk offer for a client who’s budget conscious, but you can also really win them over for more work. And so I’ve never had one day rate that was just one day rate. It’s always turned into more in some capacity, whether it’s a full project or retainer or just more day rates. So currently it’s my tiny email list and being on my tiny Instagram account, but connected to the right people.

Kira Hug:  Can you sell us or teach us how to sell your retainer package and then even your day rate? I just feel like I don’t want to skip over that because you’re selling a six-month contract at a decent price point, and then you’re selling these day rates, multiple ones of them. I feel like that’s just not easy for everyone. So what is that script or what are those points that you hit on that we can snag?

Corrie Myers:  So understanding what they need first. So let’s see, all three of my retainers started out with some other project beforehand. So it wasn’t just like I walked in the door and then I started working for them for a three to six month basis. So it’s understanding what their needs are and understanding what their team needs. So not just the actual asset that I can deliver, but what I can provide, what I know I provided to them in the web copy project or the day rate. So in this case, it was just asking the right question about their strategy for something.

So instead of just asking, do you need this? It was, how are you going to handle this? What’s your strategy for this? And in this case, it was an email. So the current retainer is an email strategy and blog package. So it was asking the question that I knew probably needed help. And it wasn’t just, what do you need done? But how can I position myself as a strategist? Because in addition to people needing to be encouraged, they just need somebody else to help them with that brain space.

They want someone else to think for them and about their business the way they do. And when you can show them that you are, you’re ahead of them and what they need, they’re like, “Oh gosh, yes, please do that thinking for me.” And so that has proved to be helpful. Every time I try to get rid of a retainer, they’re like, “Well, wait, can we change the model?” Which is great. And so that has helped me to even hear what they actually need is not… Maybe a retainer’s not working out for you. I would not pull the plug if maybe there’s another way that it would be beneficial for you and them, have it a win-win.

And then in terms of day rates, it’s usually started at maybe the price point for a full website copy package is too high or the timing doesn’t work out. I’m booked out. I can’t take on another project this month. And so I use the exclusivity of, “This is the only time I have, and the price point of it’s half the price and you don’t get everything, but you get this.” And so typically my day rates are three pages of website copy or an email sequence, that I clearly know that I can do. But some are with people I trust and it’s like, “I want to write a book proposal,” or, “I want to brainstorm this.” “I want to come up with a course.” And so once you have that trust, it’s really fun, because you’re just using your creative energy with theirs.

Rob Marsh:  Well, so I want to take that conversation to the next step. So you’re talking to somebody about, let’s say, the email sequence. And so you’re asking that question, so how are you going to handle the writing of? Or how are you going to handle the production, whatever? And they say, “I don’t know,” or, “I haven’t worked that out yet,” or something like that, what’s your answer then? I know you’re starting to do that strategic thinking, but how does that show up in that conversation?

Corrie Myers:  So if I ask a question, “Who’s going to manage the list? What are your benchmarks?” If they answer, “Well, we don’t have this,” then I ask the questions that are specific to what I would do on that project. So the things I would ask are, what is your current list engagement? What type of sequences do you need? And then also helping them map that out. Seeing a visual for it has been really huge. I think especially when business owners are in the launch world, there’s just so much. And if you haven’t launched before, you don’t know what you don’t know until you’re in it and you just want to quit. So helping them see, anticipate that, and then showing that you can map that out. So I think-

Rob Marsh:  You give them an actual map. You draw it out for them using a tool and provide that, or you’re talking through it.

Corrie Myers:  Not until I’m paid to do it. So I will offer that as a part. So with this one, I said I knew what their gaps were, and asked some specific questions about who is going to manage the list. And then she asked if I would be open to ongoing work and I wanted to make sure that I’m not just jumping on board just to write things that just kind of sits there and doesn’t get managed. I want my copy to work. And so even that statement was really empowering or exciting to them to be like, “Okay, they really want all this money I’m putting into my business to really bring in a profit.”

And so caring not just about the words, but the profitability of their company, I think in that particular case was helpful. And then I asked the specific questions about what else they have to manage it? Because I didn’t want to be the one in the email service provider. So before I said yes to that, I wanted to make sure there was somebody who was doing that and then I could manage the analytics and then make decisions from there. And so then I said, “I can build up this map so that we’re tracking all the different sequences and not just randomly creating an email funnel because somebody said we need to have an abandoned cart sequence.” So being that holder of what we need and why we need it.

Kira Hug:  I think this is a good reminder of why you’re such a great thought partner and going back to that whole concept that you are not just taking orders on these one-off projects from your clients. You are creating these strategies they can implement and thinking about the big picture, which plugs you in for six months or more into multiple projects. So it’s smart from a business sense, too, that you can be that partner in their long term.

Corrie Myers:  And I definitely was an order taker for a long… It’s easy to do and I do think being the order taker helped me build the confidence to know how to anticipate what they needed. And so I wasn’t this confident in what I could deliver on strategy-wise until I learned how.

Kira Hug:  I want to circle back to what we were talking about earlier, just related to juggling and parenting and all those things. How do you practice patience with yourself knowing that you are an ideal person? We’ve talked about many of your ideas and more than half of them have to go on the back burner. It’s hard to be patient. It’s hard to slow down. It’s hard when you have those thoughts to just slow down and know that you can’t do everything. I get frustrated with myself all the time. I can’t move as quickly as I’d like. It’s just not possible. So I guess how do you practice that on a daily basis without pulling your hair out all the time?

Corrie Myers:  This is a work in progress, but I do feel like I’m getting better at it. I do think part of it is, for me personally, because I am a parent and I have a financial responsibility to my children, getting that in order, which I think there’s a little bit of that that’s just sort of very practical. I need to get the finances in order, because then if I don’t, that impatience with my big ideas is going to feel more than just creative energy that’s being bogged down. It’s going to feel like they’re higher stakes.

So getting the finances in order has helped me make sure I’m not stressing out a scarcity mindset. And so then I’m like, “Okay, these are ideas and I just need to trust the system.” I think part of it’s looking back and seeing the wins that, “Okay, I have done this and I can do this,” and having that boost of encouragement. And then having a place for those ideas, because they will be used at some point.

I knew that at some point I was going to be in the Think Tank, but back in 2019, I was like, “This is a joke. I can pay that much a month to be in a group. That’s insane.” But in my heart, I knew that was going to happen. I just had to wait a few years. And so I journal a lot. So those ideas go there. That feels safe. But if I have an idea, I have very, very simple notes folders on my phone, because it easily updates on my computer for ideas. And I have business ideas. I have writing ideas. I have social content ideas. And I use them, because as soon as they just sit in my head, then I think it exacerbates the impatience because it has no place to go. So if I have a place for it to go, that helps.

And then I mean being in a community of people who are also having to go slower than they think because it’s easy to hop onto Instagram and see everybody doing the thing. You just see the results of their patience. Whereas what we have in, this is why I keep staying in the Think Tank is because you have people who are figuring out that messy middle and when to take the next step and when to kind of hit pauses, because their kids are home from daycare all week. I don’t know.

So have a place for them to go because they’re not bad ideas. They just may not be their best one for right now. And not being afraid to talk about them. And maybe my friends are annoyed by that, but I am like, I’m not afraid of really big outlandish ideas. I’m not afraid of just saying it. This sounds a little bit crazy and impossible and maybe I’m way too optimistic, but I’m like, “Why not? Why not say it and then figure it out later?”

Rob Marsh:  I love that you said that the idea of joining the Think Tank back three years ago was insane. When you look at the price point or whatever, clearly it’s been worth it, as you’ve talked about your business. Here’s another insane thing going on, AI. Everybody’s talking about AI. We’ve launched an AI for Creatives podcast. I’m curious, have you started playing with AI in your business? And how are you using it, if you have?

Corrie Myers:  Yes, I am. And I would not have tried it if I weren’t for seeing you and Brittany and Lanae talk about it at the Think Tank retreat. And I was like, “Oh dang, clearly I need to jump on this.” So yes, I’m very, as I think I’ve mentioned, being practical five times today, so anything that can practically help me is a win. And so once I saw that, I was very, very into it. And so there’s a lot of bigger philosophical topics or discussions around AI and I don’t have the time for that.

I’m letting other people who are smarter than me dive into that or have Kira talk about that on the podcast. So I’ve just really practically, especially in the research side, I’ve used ChatGPT a lot to help me expedite my process. And even if it’s just literally, it’s like, if I had somebody sitting next to me, I can ask my sort of obvious question too. And I just need to say it, so I’m not staring at a blinking cursor and I have a place for it to go. And then you have a process.

And then obviously the Sam Woods training was really helpful, but I have liked being able to test out AI prompts. That has been really exciting to think, oh, there’s a way to do this smarter, so that my time is maximized. The same way my nanny helps me by chopping vegetables before I get home from work. So then I can just go make the soup and be with my kids. AI helps me chop the vegetables with the work I’m doing, and then maximize my energy on the stuff that I’m the best at or that I should be spending my time on.

Because the research phase of any project is important and also can be a major time suck, which I am very guilty of. So it helps me get a wrangle on my time and how I’m spending it. So, yeah, that’s a little bit of how I used it. Just seeing other people’s prompts that have been helpful and then that Sam Woods training being a lot more strategic with how I’m using ChatGPT has been very practical in getting projects done quicker.

Kira Hug:  Think Tank, which you’ve plugged for us many times in this conversation, so thank you, but we do have a channel for AI prompts and that’s where you’ve shared so many prompts. And I think that whether it’s in Think Tank or other communities you’re in, it’s important to have that place you can go to share prompts, so you’re not starting from scratch. And that you have people you can trust and can build with. My last question as we wrap is for teachers who might be listening or maybe anyone who just wants to make a pivot or career change, what advice specifically would you give to those teachers listening who maybe don’t feel the same level of love that they used to feel and are ready for a change?

Corrie Myers:  I would, number one, validate that it is totally okay. I mean, I definitely had a little bit of survivor’s guilt leaving in 2021. I think that’s very normal. You’re not going to not have that, but what you want as a human being is valid. That’s the end of the sentence. So honoring that, and then just creating space to explore what else it could be. I mean, obviously I’m a fan of copywriting, but not everybody wants to do that. Some people might be great at designing websites or working in instructional design or there’s so many different options that I would say give yourself the freedom to explore.

And what we did was we built up the safety net financially to be able to do that. So obviously, when you leave teaching, that’s one of the best perks is that you have a safety net. You know exactly where your income is going to come for the next 10 years of your life and what your retirement is going to be. And so we needed to give ourselves some wiggle room and so we created that. I’m a big believer in the side hustle. Not everybody does, some people just like to move on. But that worked really well for me, exploring testing as a side hustle, and then creating the financial capacity to jump and take on the products I wanted to.

So honor that this is what you want to do, explore how to do it. I love the side hustle approach and there are people who want to hire teachers. I mean, I’m always looking for teachers to help me, because I know how they work, I know their brains and it feels like I know how to pass on an assignment to them. And so buddy up to somebody who might be looking for contractors, so you can test things out and be exceptionally… just work really hard. Work really hard because it always pays off to have that really strong work ethic in any job.

Even if it’s one random blog assignment, you just go hard like it is a $5,000 web copy project. And you just never know. That’s what’s really fun about this career is that there’s so many different turns it could take and you just literally never know where your next project is going to come from. And that doesn’t have to be frightening. It can be really exciting because there’s something new around the corner, as opposed to this is what I’m doing for the rest of my life.

Rob Marsh:  Good words to end on. Corrie, if somebody wants to connect with you, get on your email list, hang out, LinkedIn, or wherever, where should they go?

Corrie Myers:  Not LinkedIn, go to my website. You can join my email list, or you can follow me on social media. But emailing us is the best way to connect with me on a more consistent basis. And then obviously, Rob shouted out the podcast that someday I will do.

Rob Marsh:  It is going to happen, and we’ll be listening along as you talk about that. So it’ll be fun.

Kira Hug:  All right. Thank you, Corrie. We are grateful for you being in the Think Tank. We love working with you in the Think Tank and thanks for doing this interview with us. Appreciate it.

Corrie Myers:  So fun. Thanks you guys.

Rob Marsh:  That’s the end of our interview with Corrie Myers. Before we head out, let’s touch on one or two more things that Corrie talked about. So one thing, again, that stood out to me here, Kira, we talked a little bit about pricing and Corrie talked about the evolution of pricing in her business. And it just got me thinking about prices for so many of the copywriters that we talked to. A lot of times we think that we have marketing problems when it comes to how do we find enough clients to work with, when the real issue is that we have a pricing problem.

We’re pricing too low, and that means we need more clients in order to hit whatever that monthly number is. And if we price for the value that we’re creating. And there’s a whole bunch of stuff that goes into understanding how to have that conversation with your client and how to figure that stuff out. We talk about that in the Copywriter Accelerator and in parts in the Copywriter Underground as well. But if you nail your prices, you know you have those minimum prices, you’re pricing for the value you create, it solves a ton of marketing problems as well.

Kira Hug:  Yeah, that’s a good point, because I usually am the one saying, no, this is a marketing problem. Also, when we talked about money, she mentioned she doesn’t sell anything for under $2500. And I think that’s just a good benchmark. Everyone will have a different benchmark. I’ve had different numbers at different times, but just kind of knowing what that is for you can help you feel more confident on a sales call. Even if you don’t have packages you can present, at least it’s like this is as low as I will go. So that’s important.

And then I like the way that Corrie talked about balancing her retainers, which provide that stability. That’s been really helpful for her. And then allows her to curate her projects. And she did mention curate, and that was just a word that stood out to me when I was re-listening, because I do think that’s the power of retainers, or not even just retainers, creating new revenue streams that are more stable, because then you can curate your projects. And so anytime we have an opportunity to curate, it’s just going to be more enjoyable. You can be a little bit more strategic with your pricing. And so that’s a good way to look at how to balance the different parts of your business too.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah, retainers and creating long-term relationships so that when a project ends, you don’t need to go and find another client, but it’s like, “What’s the next thing I can help you with?” Can be a game changer for a lot of copywriters. And so many of us are project-based and there are ways to do project-based retainers for sure. We’ve talked about them on the podcast in the past many times.

But that stability makes a ton of difference in just having that predictability about what is the income going to be next month and the month after that. And sometimes those retainers end and you’ve got to replace those clients. But even if it lasts for three or four months, that’s three or four months of not having to find a client to replace this particular client.

Kira Hug:  And then my final note is just Corrie has built an incredible business. From what you’ve heard, I think you’d agree. And she’s been able to do it from her inner, I don’t know if I call it her inner circle, but her network, from past clients, from colleagues, from friends, friends of friends. And she really values her network and she will go back to past clients to book more projects.

She’s not necessarily at this stage focused on building this huge list and showing up on all the social media channels. She’s working with what she’s already got and the people who already trust her and love her. And we’ve all got that. So I think she’s just a really great example of someone who’s building from what they’ve already built in a previous career and it’s working.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah. Corrie also talked about practicing patience with yourself as you’re going through this process. And there are two competing ideas here. There’s one idea, which I am 100%… Well, I agree with both really. Don’t get ahead of yourself. Be patient with yourself and where you are. But also don’t hold yourself back. You’re probably farther along than you think and you probably are ready to take the next step. And oftentimes we get really comfortable or conservative in our thinking and we think we need something else in order to take that step forward.

And as Corrie was talking about her decision to join the Think Tank, early on before she knew she could afford it, and even later it’s like, “Hey, I’m about to have a baby. Probably not the best timing, but I’m going to do it anyway,” because she didn’t want to hold herself back. So yes, absolutely practice patience with yourself. Don’t get ahead of where you are, but also don’t get stuck when you’re in that place.

Kira Hug:  And we’ve had lots of babies, lots of babies born during Think Tank memberships.

Rob Marsh:  We want to thank Corrie for joining us on the podcast to talk about her business and the steps that she’s taken to get to each phase in her business, and especially about her ideas around thought partnership. If you want to connect with Corrie, you can find her at, which we’ll link to in the show notes or Corrie Myers on Instagram. She’s there quite a bit.

Kira Hug:  And before we go, we did get another five star review this past week, which makes us both very excited. Rob and I exchanged emails, so we don’t know who this is, but if this is from you, thank you. OhioGirl97, and she said, “This is the best copywriter podcast out there.” Thank you. “The podcast introduced me to a community of copywriters who are talented, inclusive, successful, and wildly supportive. More than anything, the TCC Podcast made all the difference in my business. Love the energy, the advice, and the vibes. It’s a must listen for copywriters.”

That’s so nice. Thank you, OhioGirl97. I hope we figure out who you are, but even if we don’t, we appreciate it and we appreciate other reviews. So if you’re listening and you got something out of this episode, please leave a review on the Apple Podcast. That’s the end of the episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. The intro music was composed by copywriter and songwriter Addison Rice, and the outro is composed by copywriter and songwriter David Muntner. Thanks for listening and we’ll see you next week.


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