TCC Podcast #135: Getting to the Truth with Andrey Adison - The Copywriter Club
TCC Podcast #135: Getting to the Truth with Andrey Adison

Copywriter Andrey Adison is our guest for the 135th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We recorded this one on Valentine’s Day and are just now getting it in your podcast feed—hopefully it is worth the wait. We asked Dre about his background, what he helps his clients do today, and what he thinks writers will be doing in the future. Here’s what we covered:
•  how he went from affiliate marketer to copywriter
•  what he learned from affiliate marketing that he applies to his work today
•  why he feels like he has a duty to get serious about mindset
•  how Dre helps his clients find the core truth they want to share
•  his framework for helping his clients build their message and audience
•  how he finds his clients and what he charges for his services
•  what he’s done to take his business to the next level
•  why specialization is important and how it has helped Dre in his business
•  what’s not working in his business today
•  where he thinks copywriting is headed in the future

This is a good one. To hear what Dre has to share, click the play button below or download the episode to your podcast player. And if you like reading, you can scroll down for a full transcript.


The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:

Rob’s book
The Copywriter Accelerator
Andrey’s site
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground
Intro: Content (for now)
Outro: Gravity


Full Transcript:

Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground.

Kira:   It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently.

Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to

What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts? Ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits. Then steal an idea, or two, to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast.

Kira:   You are invited to join the club for episode 135 as we chat with copywriter Dre Adison about growing his business. The one thing he has done to take his business to the next level, finding and working with clients and the deep dive question he asks his clients to help them get clear on their brand messaging.

Kira:   This is a very special episode because it’s Valentine’s Day, even though when you listen to this, it might be more like Easter-time, but there’s going to be a lot of love in this episode.

Rob:   Tons of love.

Kira:   So welcome Dre.

Rob:   Welcome Dre.

Dre:    Well thanks for having me. I feel the love already.

Kira:   Before we start recording we basically shared our Valentine’s Day experience thus far and Rob gives books to his children on Valentine’s Day. Which is so …

Rob:   And my wife, not just my kids-

Kira:   And your wife.

Rob:   My wife and we give to each other. Love for everyone.

Kira:   It’s so on brand with who you are. I just give my kids a lot of sugar and cavities.

Rob:   Which is also on brand.

Kira:   Which is also on brand.

Dre:    You gift them your own book? Your Brand Story book?

Kira:   His autograph.

Rob:   I don’t think they would read it. I should do that. I should give everyone my own book.

Kira:   It’s a good way to get it out there.

Rob:   Dre, what’s your Valentine’s tradition?

Dre:    I usually go out the next day, my girlfriend she doesn’t, she feels like Valentine’s Day is so populated, all the restaurants and stuff like that. So normally the day after we go out to eat or we just spend time together.

Rob:   So smart.

Kira:   You can tell you live in New York City when … I feel like all New Yorkers say that. It’s like yeah we don’t actually go out on Valentine’s Day. There’s just no space for all these people.

Dre:    Too many people.

Kira:   Alright, so let’s kick this off with your story Dre. How did you end up as a copywriter?

Dre:    At first, I feel there were a lot of twists and turns to it, but it first started out with me back in 2012 when I was in … about to be in my senior year of college. And I just knew that whatever path I was going down, I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I knew I wanted to make a bigger impact.

And I got into affiliated marketing, internet marketing. And just really trying to see how could I make money and how I could build a business of my own, and that took me down the path of affiliate marketing. I was in a company where I had to figure out how I could stand out from tens of thousands other affiliates or direct sales.

I quickly learned about copywriting, building my own list and Facebook ads and things like that. So I had that foundation throughout the years. But then the thing that shifted for me, where I really wanted to become a copywriter. Because I made a shift from that to being a high-performance coach, a mindset coach.

But I wanted to specialize in how do I help people get over this story that are holding them back from sharing their message. So it was always about the messaging. And then I realized that, okay, this is not really my lane. Being a mindset coach, being a high-performance coach is not really my zone. What if I use the skills that I acquired over the years to still help people get their message out there into the world?

And that’s where I first started getting into how to clarify your core message. And how to really just the messaging, and then I transitioned into just owning the copywriting and saying okay, I already have the messages ready, and creating my own smaller products, I already been doing these things. Now how can I use my expertise, how can I use my gifts and things that I have to help people get their message out there, or clarify it and feel confident, just owning that value and owning their gifts. And copywriting for me was the perfect balance of that mission that I had and aligning that with the gifts that I already had.

Rob:   So, can we talk for a minute, before we get into copywriting, about affiliate marketing? I think a lot of us know what affiliate marketing is all about, although maybe we don’t do it. It’s certainly changed over the last 10 years, how it’s done effectively. What are some of the things that you did as an affiliate marketer, Dre, to help people build their businesses, and maybe more importantly, what are the things in addition to copywriting, that you can take away from affiliate marketing that you apply in your business today?

Dre:    I think the biggest thing was, like I said, affiliate marketing is almost like a business opportunity in a sense. So the thing that I got from it was, really understanding how do I separate myself?

So when I would create a capture page, other people were using the same capture pages, other people were using the same sales letters, so I would do little things. Like, okay now, let me build my own email list instead of using the swiped emails. Then start using my list, and it was at a point where I was emailing my list almost on a daily basis.

And when people would opt in, before they went to the offer, I’d create like a sandwich page, and I’d introduce myself and I’d have a video there. And just try to personalize and customize the experience and tailor it into a way where … if the offer is positioned one specific way, now you try to have your own lane, your own spin on it. To where now, okay, now people are also buying into you. People are also buying into the message that you’re sharing, and it’s something that’s unique. And then you introduce, or almost like you’re partnering with that person or that author.

Kira:   So, Dre, can you tell us more about your time as a high-performance coach, and why it ended up not being your thing. And then what you pulled away from that experience that you use in your business today?

Dre:    So with that … I wasn’t that successful with the mindset, high-performance coach. It was more so … really it was me creating a lot of content on Facebook and had a few clients. But the reason why I got into it, I guess that’s really the thing that drew me into it, stuff like this. When I was doing the affiliate marketing, and then I had my own product, between $7 and $97, but I started to feel unfulfilled. I started to feel like I was just a behind the scenes person, and I knew that I had a bigger message. I wasn’t showing up fully.

I had a cancer scare. I had a lump that was growing on my neck, and the doctor said, ‘Okay, take these antibiotics, it will go down. Or let’s wait a few months and it’ll go down,’ and it continued growing. So I went to a surgeon and he said it could be lymphoma.

Kira:   Oh my gosh.

Dre:    But I thank God it ended up being nothing. He removed the lymph node, the swollen lymph node, he removed it. But I think just that experience, just sitting in the doctor’s office … At that time I was like, 23 years old and I’m just like …

Kira:   Wow.

Dre:    I guess it put everything in perspective, of okay … I feel like I have this bigger message to share. I feel like I have a duty almost, to use my message, to use my gifts, because I can’t take life for granted. I can take things for granted.

So I realized that I wasn’t the only person that was going through things like that, so I think that was the shift that made me realize that okay … What was the big thing that was holding me back, was mindset. It was like, these things. So I went down this journey, and you know, lots of times you’re going down your own journey, you become passionate about helping other people with that. So I wanted to help other people really own their message and really own their gifts and get out their own way. And I felt like the biggest obstacle was the mindset.

But I realize that to me, I was passionate about it, but I don’t think I had the full expertise enough to just own it.

Kira:   Yeah.

Dre:    So okay, now how can I still … like right now, I still feel like I’m fulfilling the same mission, but this is from a different angle. So how can I still fulfill this mission but from a different angle, instead of being like a mindset coach, or a high-performance coach.

Kira:   Yeah, and that makes sense. So, how can copywriters figure out what that message is, like what is their brand message? What do they really care deeply about, without a cancer scare, which could definitely trigger you to question everything, but without a cancer scare, how do we sit back and just start to really figure out like, ‘What am I doing? How can I create this impact? What is my message?’

Dre:    I think, and I, we hear this a lot of times, but I think it really goes back to what do you stand for. And a sense of … okay you see things. There’re natural things, but a lot of times, let’s say there’s a copywriter and they’re watching other copywriters talk about something, and they’re just like, ‘Well, that’s BS. I don’t agree with that.’ And it’s like, what are the things that you get passionate about, what are the things that on your journey you’ve realized, okay, wow, this had a big impact?

And for me, with the messaging also, when I got into that, when I started working with clients at first, the area that I saw that I had the most passion for and lifted me up the most was when clients would have that a-ha moment, to where they feel like okay … they almost like … they give themselves permission to be themselves or to use their gifts. And I think it’s when you’re working with clients or you’re looking to your own journey, you say okay, and you’re like, what was that moment? What was that a-ha moment? What was that thing and how can I now use this to help other people.

So it really stems from going back to your own journey, and looking back and saying, okay, what were those key moments. What was that moment I felt like, wow? Or when you’re working with clients … I feel like we all have a part of our process, we all have a part of the thing that were doing that we love the most. So now it’s digging deeper, saying what about that lights me up? And then asking why. Why does this light me up? What is it about this?

And a lot of times it’s either because of something personal to you, or because you see the impact, or you see how it’s affecting other people, and you just become passionate about their breakthrough. You become passionate about that a-ha moment.

Rob:   So we’ve skipped over a lot of the beginning stages of your career, but while we’re talking about this, I want to know, what are the questions that you ask your clients to help them identify the thing that they stand for? How do you get to that a-ha moment with them?

Dre:    So I got a few questions. Like I said, one of them just now was like, if you had to share one insight or lesson, to your ideal client, what would it be? Let’s say you’re in a room with them, or you just had a few moments to share something, what is that thing?

Kira:   Oh, that’s good, that’s really good.

Rob:   Yeah, I like that question.

Dre:    And another one is just asking them what led them to this work, because the clients … I guess I should be specific. The clients that I work with are coaches and consultants, mainly in the personal development/transformation space, so the work is personal. The work that they’re doing a lot of times is personal to them. They went through their own transformation, a lot of times, and now they’re fired-up about helping other people about this.

So I ask them like, ‘What led you to this work?’ And a lot of times they go back to their own journey. So now, form just them sharing that message, them sharing the parts of their story, and why that had an impact on them, why that created a shift in them, we pull out parts of their story. The relevant parts that could connect to their audience.

Another question is like, ‘What common advice shared by others in your niche annoys you, or that you call BS on?’ And then I follow that up with, ‘Well what’s the truth?’

Kira:   Oh. That’s good, that’s so good.

Dre:   And this is more so when people go on like a … I used to call it like a passionate rant. So for me, if you ask me that, I would say I wished more people and my audience realize that connection happens before conversion, and that it’s not just about … all right, like what is the next funnel, what is the hack, what is the next trick. But instead, it’s about really understanding who you are and how you can serve, and really creating that connection. So just like, what are you frustrated that you just wish more people would realize, and if they realized that would create a shift in them?

And then when we get on the audience, when we get on their value, the question I ask … it’s three questions. So, why this, why them, why you? So when it comes to your offer, what you’re putting out there, why this? Why do you feel like this is that thing that’s going to create a shift in your audience? Why are you so fired-up about offering this? Why them? So, why these specific group of people versus others that you can serve, what about these people lights you up, gets you excited to wake up every morning to serve? Because you have to have that empathy. You have to really care about helping them get results. So it’s not enough to say okay, because these people have money I’m going to work with them.

Like I said, I’m speaking more so to like coaches and consultants, so it’s like really, why them, and then why you. And when I ask the why you, a lot of times they’ll start with, ‘Because I know what it feels like to …’ blank, and that’s when they get into their story, and that’s when they share those connection points between them and their audience.

Kira:   Okay, I’m going to steal all these questions. So let’s talk about what you’re actual business looks like today, because you have gone through this evolution. What are you selling, what are the packages like?

Dre:    So I have two offers right now. My goal is to really just lead with the brand message and the brand storytelling, and just be full enough with that. But right now the main package is still, like the email funnels but I’ve positioned it in a way where that’s just the next step.

Kira:   Right.

Dre:    So it’s the brand messaging, and then up to eight emails. Normally it’d be like a nurture sequence.

Rob:   And you said you have another package too?

Dre:    Yeah the other package is really the brand messaging strategy, so that’s where we go through … I have a framework. So there’s three parts to it. It’s the truth, tribe, transformation.

Kira:   Oh.

Dre:    So we go through that and we really … The truth part is the part about okay, what’s your truth, what do you stand for, what do you want to be known for, what is that core message, and we dial into their backstory, what are the most relevant parts of that story, that they can share with their audience. So really like, what is their truth.

And then the tribe. This is where we’re focusing all on one person that they can best serve, and it’s providing clarity and deeper insight into that and where they’re at on their journey. And I think parts of … like a story structure to help them really create that character, like a real person that they serve, because it is a real person.

And then the transformation, to where you’re getting clear on what do they … like what are you really selling? What is the real value that you’re offering, beyond just, ‘Okay, I’m offering an eight-week Mindset Program. I’m offering a wellness package.’ like, what is the real value that you are delivering, what is the transformation and how to frame that, how to position that in a way that is desirable to your audience.

So in that one, I walk them through that three-part framework. And I do that for both of them, but it’s just one, and then the next step is the emails.

Rob:   I love these frameworks that you’ve put together, you know, to help people understand how do you move from not knowing what you say, to knowing who you’re talking to, what you’re saying about yourself, but most importantly what you’re saying to them, seems really super smart.

I’m curious though, how do clients find you so that you can start the process in talking with them? Is it just through your website? Are you finding them some other way? How do you get the process started?

Dre:    Well, it’s mainly through content. To be honest, I haven’t been that consistent with content lately, but especially over the past few years. Before I was doing copywriting I was talking about messaging since like around 2015, but I was talking about the core message, so I built up an audience around that. And then, like I said I was in the mindset and the high-performance space already, so a lot of people that were my peers, we already follow each other, we’re in the same groups.

I started out with my network. I have Instagram, and my email lists. Those are really the three ways I get clients.

Kira:   So when you package this brand messaging guide, can you tell us a little bit more about like the nitty-gritty, like how many, how you deliver it? Is it a Google doc? How many pages, how robust is it? Even just a ballpark of what you charge because a lot of copywriters in the club are creating similar offers and I feel like we’re all kind of wondering how we all create this venture.

Dre:    So for the first one, the one I do just the messaging strategy, at first I started off … and this is what we was working on when we was in The Copywriter Accelerator.

Kira:   Yeah.

Dre:    It was a three-hour deep dive, where we worked through all of this stuff, and then I put together the document. I didn’t have a certain set amount of pages, but I break it down into, ‘Okay, here is core message.’ I’ll break down parts of the relevant parts of their story, what they stand for, what do they call BS on, what do they feel are their core values that drive them. And just really by sections.

So that’s section one, with the truth. Same way with the framework. So now with tribe, I write down who their audience is and then we break down some of that. I call it the Bridge of Beliefs. So now we’d have them get clear on what are the beliefs that are in the way of them experiencing their results and what do they have to believe?

And then another thing is MVP alignment. I think I like to have frameworks, I like to have cool names for stuff.

Kira:   Yeah, you always have the best names for your frameworks.

Dre:    So it’s the MVP alignment, so that’s mission, values and perspective alignment. So I just understand what’s driving this person; how do they see the world, and then how do we align that, how do we connect that to your mission, to the value that you stand for, to the perspective that you have. So I break that down.

The next step is the tribe, on that document, and then the transformation to where we map out their process, their framework, we map out just the description of the author in itself, what is the outcome of it, what is the identity. So when someone goes through this, who will they become? How are they showing up? What do they really want from this. And then just really bridging that gap from, this is who they are right now and this is where they want to be.

And it’s valuable because just the language in this document you can use in your about page, on your work-on-me page. And then I also have a brand story guide. You can copy paste that almost as an about page, because it’s starting off with just connecting with them and sharing parts of their story and then it leads into to the author, or if they have a lead magnet. So those are the real two deliverables for that, on top of the core.

Dre:    When I started out, I started off at $750, and now it’s at $2000.

Kira:   Okay. I appreciate you sharing that. There’s so much in there. I mean, when you think of value, with just creating a framework for a client, there’s so much value in helping them work through their process and figure out their offers, and then you have everything else on top of that. That’s worth a lot.

Dre:    Yeah, and because the thing that I realized earlier on … there’s a lot of power in clarity and having a strategic focus because the client should not work with … They know that they have a message, they know they have value, and they’re often times working with a culture, they’re in a high tech mastermind program already, but a lot of those things are just, follow this system, follow this blueprint. Just do these things because I’ve made money this way, especially in the personal development space.

A lot of times there’s this belief that you have to be talking about money or you have to be leading with money or funnels, the thing that you see all the time on Facebook and all these ads to create success. So when people have that clarity, ‘Okay, here’s how I can actually lead with what I want to talk about, but in a way that connects with my audience,’ it’s like an a-ha moment that lights up and then now the content starts to flow and they just have more confidence to show up.

Rob:   I really like, like I said, the frameworks. Really like your process. I’m curious, when you’re working with clients, Dre, what are the parts that kind of trip them up? What do they struggle with that you’ve really got to jump in and help them? Is it on the transformation or is it on the stuff about them? Where are the sticky parts?

Dre:    I think it’s two parts. The first, about them, I think opening up and feeling like this stuff matters, like this stuff will actually connect with my audience and how … I think that’s the thing, ‘How do I share this in a way that connects?’ Because either you don’t want to sound self-centered, you don’t want to sound like you’re just all about yourself, or you just feel like hey, whatever, this stuff doesn’t matter. But I think when you really create that kind of connection, that is one thing that they’re stuck on.

And then another part is when it comes to understanding their audience. So yeah, they may have the demographics, and that’s the stage where my audience is. They know who the person is, but it’s really more so demographics and not taking the time to dive deeper into what are their beliefs. Also, beyond the external obstacles, what are the internal obstacles that they have? What is the thing that they’re saying to themselves? What is the identity, what is it that is going on in their life right now that’s making them feel comfortable in this position.

I think those are the two things, but that one especially not digging deep enough, because you’re just so passionate about doing your work and sharing this message and just getting it out there, that you’re not really taking time to really understand your audience and speak to them in a very specific way that connects on a more emotional level, beyond just a problem that you’re solving.

Rob:   It seems to me as I look at a lot of people in the niche that you work in, a lot of people default into one of two positions. One, they share all of these personal experiences, the rags to riches, or the things that they’ve suffered from, or the go all the way to the other side, and it’s this tough guy or tough girl, nothing gets me down, I’m strong. Do you see that happening with your clients, or is there more nuance to that? Is there a place in the middle where some of the rest of us can fit?

Dre:    I believe there’s a place in the middle. I say that my experience is more so the first example that you gave, where people are just being vulnerable or just sharing, but there’s no real … there’s no real strategy or like thought process behind …

First of all what is the big idea that I’m even sharing behind this? Where do I want to lead people from this? Is it people being passionate about whatever they’re doing, and just sharing without any real strategy behind it?

Rob:   Yeah, so the vulnerability needs to be attached to something you’re trying to accomplish in business, it doesn’t do any good to talk about how my dog just died or the awful that are happening constantly in my life, if it doesn’t lead to some other transformation or some other positive outcome.

Kira:   You can just share that with me, Rob, whenever you need to. Don’t put that on your about page, just share that with me.

Dre:    Therapy sessions, dude. You can share that stuff, because … it’s the same like email. You know, sometimes you get emails and it’s about the most random things but you still can segue into a message. So, a question is, why does this matter? What does this mean and why does this matter?

You can share something about their dog, but now if you can connect to it emotionally, you can connect it to something that relates to how your audience feels, now that’s the thing. I think that is the a-ha moment in itself from the audience, where it’s like, okay you’re sharing this stuff, but it always has to be in the context of how is this relevant to the person on the other end.

Kira:   That makes sense. So can you share one thing, or if there’s a couple of things that’s helped you up-level, in air quotes, your business the most? Because you’ve grown so much in your business, what have you done that’s worked really well?

Dre:    One of the things is, from early, I knew I wanted to be more than just a copywriter, or whatever title. I saw myself almost like a partner in my clients’ business, and I became invested in it, so I would always look for opportunities to go, ‘Okay well now, yeah, I’m writing this email thing,’ but I also will be paying attention to their Facebook ads, or I’ll also be looking at their messaging and just the overall cusp of things and how they’re showing up, and just sharing things to where they felt like, ‘Hey, I’m in good hands and this person genuinely cares about my success,’ and they look at you differently now, because it’s not just, ‘Okay you’re writing words, or you’re helping me get this thing,’ it’s like, ‘Okay, let’s do this together.’

And I think this is, as you say, one-B …if I had to share one thing, this is the second part of one, where the clients that I work with, I always find a way to be almost like emotionally fired-up about their mission as well. Because as copywriters, were writing for other people, and we’re trying to get their message across. So if you don’t resonate with that message, if you don’t believe in their mission and what they’re doing, it’s hard to create that connection. But when you feel that, that’s when you can share your copy with the client, and they feel like, wow, ‘I love this, this is exactly what I had in mind, exactly what I wanted to share,’ because you’re almost like you’re transferring that passion on to you and now you’re making it go through the copy, and letting people feel that.

Rob:   Yeah, I like that. So, what else? I know we kind of asked you for one thing, but it seems like you’ve had a lot of influence..

Kira:   We want ten things, actually.

Rob:   What else has helped you really up-level.

Kira:   We’ll pay you..whatever it takes.

Dre:    I’ll tell you really, the Accelerator, I think that where I got the most confidence as far as the business side of things.

First of all, the community, but also just the templates, the contracts. I didn’t have to spend time just either winging it, or just going through the internet and just having all these tabs open and trying to figure things out. I was able to just have this there so now I can focus a lot more on my business and mastering my skills. So, I got a lot of confidence from that.

And just little confidence boosts within that. It’d be sometimes Kira would respond to my emails, and be like, ‘Great email,’ or we’d work on a project and she’s like, ‘I love your messaging.’ And I remember I screenshot that and I showed it to my girlfriend, like, ‘Look!’

Rob:   Picture framed on my wall too, of Kira’s first few…

Dre:    You know, you having someone else that you know works with people at a higher caliber, people that you look up to and just being able to connect with them, being able to ask questions, being able to get feedback … that gave me confidence, because up until that point, I spent a lot of money, but it was more so just on courses, or it was a coaching program. It would just be those AB coaching programs that just drip out the content and just be in a Facebook group with a bunch of people, but there wasn’t any real interactions from the owner of it. That was really my first experience of having real coaching, having real mentors, real feedback, in that sense.

Kira:   That’s so important. I feel like that’s what’s helped me really honor my business, just getting that feedback from people and small groups. Intimate groups where someone’s actually really reading what you’ve written or just checking what you’ve done and commenting on it, and actually cares about it. That’s such a great confidence boost. I think we all need that at different times.

At this point things are going well in your business. What are some challenges today? How do you kind of continue to grow, and what are those challenges that you’re facing right now?

Dre:    For me it’s knowing the direction I want to go in, with like really leading with … going all in on the brand messaging and the brand story. I just feel like, you know we all have different beliefs, like if I don’t have the copy part of it, or if I don’t have this, it’s not valuable or it’s not going to be good enough, or not going to be..

So I think, sometimes that holds me back because I’m just in my head too much or I hesitate or I may not create as much as I want to, because there’s just like this indecision that’s holding me back from that.

Kira:   Gotcha. Okay, cool. Can you talk more about specialization, because this is so big in what you’ve done. You’ve been very clear that messaging is what you want to focus on, and that’s the direction you want to go. Can you just tell other copywriters why specialization has been useful to you, and to maybe just give them another way of looking at it? Because I think so many of us push away and push against specialization. It’s scary to really go that narrow.

Dre:    I think it allows you to create your own lane. I think the biggest thing is simplifying your focus, because now, if I know that messaging … and also email, if I know that that’s my lane, I’m not worried about a million things. I can study the greatest email marketers, I can things from story, and I can really hone my craft to where I now I can become that go-to person for that.

And with email, that’s where I started off, with the messaging in email, and it was very easy for my clients to refer me. One of my first clients, he was the high ticket on Mastermind. The mastermind was about business and about funnels and just growing a culture business. So he would refer me to people that were also in that Mastermind, and then he asked someone that was on this team, like it was a designer or somebody, and when that person branched out on his own, he messaged me and said, ‘Hey, I know you do email, I know we worked on projects together.’

So it just makes it easier for people to find you and also makes it easier for you to feel confident because you know, this is my thing, this is what I do, and you can own it. And you can be seen as a leader, you can create content around it and that’d just be your thing. Without the pressure to be everything or have to learn every single thing.

Kira:   Hey, we’re just jumping into the show today to tell you a little bit more about The Copywriter Underground. Rob, what do you like best about this membership?

Rob:   So this membership community is full of copywriters that are investing in their businesses and taking what they do seriously. Everything is focused around three ideas, copywriting and getting better at the craft that we all do; marketing, and getting in front of the right customers so that you can charge more, and earn more; and also mindsets, so that you can get out of your head and focus on the things that will help you be successful at what we do.

Rob:   There’s a private Facebook group for the members of the community and we also send out a monthly newsletter that’s full of advice, again, on those three areas, copywriting, marketing, and mindset. Things that you can mark up, and tear out, put them in your files, save them for whatever, and it’s not going to get lost in your email inbox.

Rob:   Kira, what do you like about The Copywriter Underground?

Kira:   I love the monthly hot seat calls, where our members have the chance to sit in the hot seat and ask a big question, or get ideas or talk through a challenge in their business. Because we all learn from those situations.

And then I also feel like the templates we include in the membership are valuable because who wants to reinvent the wheel? And Rob and I end up sharing a lot of the templates, and resources we use in our own businesses, so I would definitely want to grab those.

Rob:   So if you are interested in joining a community of copywriters that are investing in their business and in themselves, and trying to do more, get more clients, earn more money consistently, go to to learn more. Now, back to the program.

Kira:   So, I want to ask about branding and social media, because you did mention that that’s how you found clients, because you’ve been doing this for a while. I mean, we can check out your YouTube videos, and it seems like you’re naturally great at creating this brand, and the design elements are always just so professional.

So, my question is how can copywriters do what you’ve done with your branding and social media? How can we approach it so that it does work for us and we do attract clients, just by showing up with this consistent brand and message on social media?

Dre:    I think it really goes back to the message, and what you want to stand for. Because sometimes instead of playing where I’d hold myself back, because I felt like I’m almost always saying the same thing, but then it ended up working because this is the message that I want to be known for.

It really starts from get clear on what you want to be known for, what is that lane that you want to have. So, with Kira, with you it was really embracing your weird, and the personality stuff, and just … the more that you talk about stuff like that, the more that you attract people who resonate with that message, who may be looking for a copywriter, or maybe looking for a messaging strategist or whatever.

But they don’t resonate with the hard pitching, the hard selling way of doing things, just only conversion. They feel like, wow, I have this great personality, I have this great story to tell. I have this thing. I want somebody that gets me, I want somebody that focuses on that.

That was the big thing for me, social media. And what I would do, when I was more consistent with it, in the morning time, I’d open up an Evernote document, and I would either like, journal, or ask myself what’s one thing that I can share today, to add value to my audience. And I’d just start writing stuff down. A lot of times it would be these long paragraphs and things like that, but within that paragraph there may be two sentences, or three sentences that really stand out. And then now that’s either the copy for my post, or that’s the text that I put on my Instagram post, or that’s the video that I create.

It’s just getting in the habit of … even if you don’t show up every day, like posting every day, creating something of value every day, and just asking yourself, ‘What can I share?’ if you read something, look for the lessons in that.

And even though you see this stuff now, I’ve been making videos since 2013. I guess, you know, over time, I guess I just got better at it. When I look at it, it doesn’t seem like that to me, but it’s just over time, I think. It’s patience, also.

Kira:   Yeah. So it seems like patience, consistency, persistence, but is it going all in and choosing two social media channels? Is that how you think of it? Like, ‘Hey, I’m going to go all in on YouTube and Instagram and I’m going to post twice a week. Do you approach it that way, or does it just kind of happen naturally?

Dre:    Yeah, that helps. Like, right now, just to be transparent, if someone looks on my pages, you’re not going to see that much consistency right now.

Kira:   We’re all going to check it out.

Dre:    But that’s what I had to decide, where I said okay, I’m going to choose Instagram, especially with coaches, and in the personal development space, they’re on Instagram. So, you know, also going back to where your audience is at, and beyond that, where can you be the most consistent.

I personally don’t like Facebook. At first, I tried to keep up with Facebook but it was just too much for me, so I like Instagram. I like videos, so I chose YouTube, but for this year, I said I’ll still record videos, but instead of posting on YouTube, I’ll just have smaller clips on my Instagram. So I chose Instagram and I chose my email list.

I think that’s also, like what you said, choosing one or two platforms and just being consistent on there, because then it’s easier to branch out after that.

Rob:   I think that’s great advice. So Dre, I can imagine somebody listening to this is thinking, ‘Holy cow, he’s got everything figured out. He’s got his processes down, he’s got his great frameworks, he’s doing well in his business, he’s got his niche, and it’s working for him, finding the right clients …’ What isn’t working in your business? Or, what mistakes have you made that as you’ve gone along, that maybe the rest of us could try to avoid?

One of the biggest mistakes was trying to prove myself or trying to prove my value to clients, but overstepping boundaries. Like not respecting my own boundaries.

I had one client where I delivered the emails, but then I also shared insights about landing page, and then I ended up just creating a landing page because I wanted to show him how it could look, or I wanted to show him certain things, so I ended up doing things that were beyond the scope. So I think that’s one of my issues, having set boundaries, and not going beyond that.

And also one thing that I still struggle with is systems. Having systems down, And I guess that goes back to boundaries, those are almost the same thing.

Kira:   Right, when you have systems, it’s easier to create those boundaries.

So, I’ve always liked to know what happens behind the scenes. We see your Instafeed and it looks so pro. What does a typical week look like for you, behind the scenes? How do you structure your days and your time so that you have a good business and you’re investing in your business and then also have a good life?

Dre:    As far as the high level picture, I break things down to where I have certain days where I’m writing, like really focused just all on writing copy, because for me, I find that after I write copy my brain is fried after a while, so I have that.

On Sundays, I plan out the week, and I plan out my content that I want to create. Mondays I create the content in advance. That’s social media posts. If I’m emailing my list, I would usually do that probably like an hour before I email my list, so I do that. And then I have set days for when I do calls, either sales calls and then client calls. And then I break down a separate day for copywriting.

So I don’t have it down, but for the most part, I start my day off just focusing on … you can say serving myself. I wake up, I go to the gym. Read for 15 minutes, and just do … I have my own morning routine so that I’m feeling good. And then if I’m working on my own stuff, I’ll do that first. If it’s a project and you have deadlines, sometimes those boundaries and that stuff goes out the window and from the time I wake up to the time I go to sleep I’m just writing copy and getting things done.

Rob:   So if you were starting over, or if you could go back and talk to Dre just starting out, just coming out of the affiliate marketing area, and starting to do copywriting, what advice would you give to yourself so that you could get more done more quickly?

I’d say if I was coming out of the affiliate marketing and I was going into this, I would say to really just … same thing. Like, own something, but also spend more time understanding the business side of things. Because I felt confident, I always felt confident in the actual skill of copywriting, or skill of helping people clarify their message.

But it wasn’t enough confidence, it wasn’t enough research, it wasn’t enough time spent. Like, this is a real business, so I have to understand contracts, I have to understand proposals, I have to understand these legal things. I have to understand systems. I took too long to really take that seriously, even when I had the resources, like Accelerator. I was implementing it but I didn’t make it enough of a priority and a focus.

Kira:   Gotcha. So, can you share what you’re building over time? I know you mentioned that you want to focus more on … like go all in on brand messaging, but as a platform and as a brand, where do you see yourself a couple years from now? Speaking on stage or … What are you really excited to build?

Dre:    I’d say a … well not a bigger business, but a business where I’m known or the go-to person for helping entrepreneurs, especially coaches and consultants; dial in their message and be able to share their story, share their message, share their value with their audience in a compelling way, and I want that to be my focus, and I see myself having, let’s say one or two copywriters that I’m working with, and now they’d be able to create … let’s say we’re creating website copy. So let’s say that we’re creating the homepage, the about page, the services page for the audience, or we’re creating an email funnel, I see that.

So it’s like I have a platform to where I see myself speaking on stage, I see myself on podcasts, and building up this platform, and it’s beyond copy. It’s really more so about almost in a personal development way of owning your value, owning your message, and realizing that what you have and who you are and what you stand for and the value inside you is good enough. Now how do we share that in a way that matters to other people? I just see myself being that go-to source for that. But then also still having a service side of it, but I don’t have to be the one that’s doing all the work for it, at least.

Kira:   Yeah, I love your message so much I just want to see you speaking on stage and motivating people all around the world.

Rob:   Yeah, it’s fun to see, not that you needed a lot of help from us, but to see where you came from in The Accelerator and where you are now and just what you’ve done with your business. I think it’s really exciting and it just shows that when you’ve got a goal in mind and you’re going after it, that you can achieve a lot, and what you’re doing with your business is really cool Andrey.

Rob:   So if people want to connect with you, find out more about you, where should they go?

Dre:    My website, and also you can add me on Instagram, so that’s my name @andreyadison.

Rob:   And spell that just so that we make sure we spell it right.

Dre:    A-N-D-R-E-Y A-D-I-S-O-N.

Kira:   All right. Thank you so much Dre for coming on here with us and it’s been so great to work with you on projects, I want to work with you again, and just really excited to spend more time with you over the next year.

Rob:   Thanks.

Dre:    Thank you.

You’ve been listening to The Copywriter Club Podcast, with Kira Hug and Rob Marsh. Music for this show is a clip from Gravity, by Whitest Boy Alive available on iTunes. If you like what you’ve heard, you can help us spread the word by subscribing in iTunes, and by leaving a review. For show notes, a full transcript, and links to our free Facebook community, visit the We’ll see you next episode.




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