Among the copywriters we’ve had the pleasure to meet, there are a lot of former teachers who have gone from helping students learn history, math, and English and now help teach customers about products and services that meet their needs. Our guest for the 213th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Francis Nayan, a former teacher, now conversion copywriter specializing in emails. Francis told us about how he made the switch and what he’s doing now. Here’s what we talked about:

•   the first hit of dopamine that led him to believe he could make a living as a copywriter
•   what he did to grow his business after landing his first client
•   his wild-west approach to finding clients and why it didn’t work very well
•   the first big client that turned into an intense marketing training opportunity
•   why he looked forward 6 months to figure out what to do next
•   how he focused on better habits to build the business he wanted
•   the tangible benefits Francis has gotten from the investments in his biz
•   our first gigs—how we got started as copywriters
•   being intentional about the business you are building—and doing it early on
•   the habits Francis has adopted to get ahead—cold showers, 5 AM, lemon water
•   the kinds of email packages he works on and what he charges
•   what’s involved in creating email strategy
•   email deliverability—what you can do to make sure your emails make it to the inbox
•   dealing with the psychology of trimming your list
•   the best subject line for your emails <—this is great advice
•   whether you should do the tech and automation or just the copy
•   why he is anti-social media and what he does instead
•   podcasting and why it is a great way to get your ideas into the world

This is a great interview you won’t want to miss. To hear it, hit the play button below. Or read the transcript just under that. Best of all, subscribe so you never miss an episode (and leave a review on iTunes while you’re at it).