TCC Podcast #90: Thoughts about scarcity with Rob Marsh and Kira Hug - The Copywriter Club
TCC Podcast #90: Thoughts about scarcity with Rob Marsh and Kira Hug

Wow, ninety episodes. That was fast, right? For the 90th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk about some of the challenges of running a growing Facebook group and managing competing cultures, expectations, and conversations that cross the line. Some of the topics we covered in this rare guest-less episode include:

•  what Rob has been doing with his business for the last two months
•  a little bit about Kira’s experiment with a “mini micro agency”
•  the program experiment that “failed”
•  why we created the Facebook group and why we sometimes let things go farther than some people feel appropriate
•  balancing trust and intent with censorship
•  the place for scarcity in copywriting
•  how scarcity impacts us as copywriters
•  what Kira does when she finds herself in a scarcity mindset
•  how to create scarcity the right way

Plus we talked a bit about what’s coming up next for us and the club. We’ve got some great new (and returning) guests joining us in the next few weeks that we’re very excited about. To hear it all, visit iTunes, Stitcher or click the play button below. And as always you can scroll down for a full transcript.

The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:

The Copywriter Accelerator
The Copywriter Think Tank
The Hidden Brain Scarcity Episode
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
Intro: Content (for now)
Outro: Gravity

Full Transcript:

Copywriters Rob Marsh and Kira Hug

Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast.

Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 90, as Kira and I talk about what’s been going on in the Copywriter Club lately, and in our own businesses; how we hope to monitor Facebook discussions moving forward; and why scarcity is such a powerful motivator for your clients, and something you need to watch out for in your own business.

Rob: Hey, Kira.

Kira: Hey Rob. How’s it going?

Rob: It is going awesome. Before we started recording, we were just talking about how we’re both so happy that Spring is here, and spending some time outside. You were going for a run; I’m hoping to get out on my bike and…yeah, things are going good.

Kira: Yeah, definitely. Getting outside has helped with the warm weather; I feel like I haven’t done much of that over the last two months, so yeah. This was a first job in a long time. Very slow; very slow pace!

Rob: Yeah, I totally get that. So, my bike has been sitting in my garage for way too long, because the handlebar tape broke on my bike, and I fixed it with some packing tape, and that just bugged the heck out of me. So I had this tape sitting, ready to make a repair, and I finally got it done on Saturday, and got out for a ride, and oh my gosh. You know, like ten minutes in, I’m like, why haven’t I been doing this everyday? You know, I miss being on my bike. So, yeah; thank you Spring for getting here, and getting my out of my desk chair, and out into the world.

Kira: Yeah. Well I feel like you and I have been hibernating a bit the past….year, maybe?

Rob: Laugh. Yeah, a little bit.

Kira: And just chugging along on the copywriter club, and putting it together. So what’s been happening in your business? Because we haven’t really talked about your business since episode 80 which was about two months ago, right?

Rob: Yeah. So I think we talked right after the live even that we did.

Kira: Right. Yeah.

Rob: And you know, after the live event, I took on a lot of work, and so for the last two months, have been working really hard on balancing a couple of really large projects, along with what we were doing in The Copywriter Club, and i have to admit, for the last two months, while the work has been steady and the income has been good, it has been, you know—I’ve literally been working 60, 70-hour weeks, and not spending nearly enough time with my family or on myself. And it definitely wears you down. I think you’ve been doing something similar.

Kira: And we did the same thing, I guess. I didn’t realize that, but after the event, I feel like January and February were so focused on the event in New York, that I missed the client work, or I felt…I like to get out there; I like to speak to client; i like to book work; I like to make money; I like to sell. SO I think I just got overly zealous and just jumped into client work, and took on a  lot as well. We both did that, and so I definitely booked the biggest two months I’ve ever booked with more projects than really I could handle and decided to look at it like I’m running a micro-agency, and to bring on subcontractors as needed, and really just to treat it like, you know, I’m an agency; I need to operate differently than I have in the past, and this will be an experiment like we always say.

So, that’s been my March and April, and while I feel like I have taken away a lot from that and it has helped me grow—which you kind of always have to say right?–it was painful, it was very painful. I don’t know why I put myself through these torturous events just to, like, grow personally. But yeah; I think the client work paired with our launch of our accelerator program which we launched twice a year, and actually we’re going to start launching it just once a year in September, and then the launch of our Think Tank Mastermind group, and then we even launched a new program—the Accelerator Plus—for our former Accelerator members. Which, you know, well we can talk more about that in a minute. Laughs.

Rob: Yeah. Well, but yeah I think you’re right. We seemed to have done a lot of similar things. You sort of took on a lot of subcontractors; I didn’t do any subcontracting, or did very little subcontracting, but also took on a partnership project with an agency that, you know, was worth far more than the typical project that I do, and involves several videos and animations and, just a beyond scope of what I’ve done as a freelancer. You know, I used to do that kind of stuff a lot in the agency world before I did my own business, but it’s good to push yourself sometimes, but then you have to let the string sort of set back, and relax, and so hopefully this month, maybe we can do a little bit of that.

Kira: No, I don’t think so. I don’t think that’s happened. Yeah, I think it’s just a lesson I need to learn, and I, for some reason, have a hard time learning that lesson, but I do think that I am slowly starting to get it. I just think I need to—I don’t know. I need to feel the pain. I really need to feel it in order to change, and to learn these lessons, like, hey, I should take on less clients while we’re building The Copywriter Club—that makes sense! So, I do feel like sense this crazy few months, you know, I’ve brought on a virtual assistant who is amazing, and will probably have her on the show soon, so that has helped, and I’m working through that very slowly—baby steps—because it’s tricky to on-board people. At least, I have a hard time on-boarding people.

And then I’ve been working on just managing my schedule too, to create more space, because I’m the type of person who will just book everyday, like back to back meetings, which I know you’ve done as well, and that’s been really hard for both of us to just go like, no stop. Like we don’t even stop for bathroom breaks. Like we just book it, flat out, all day, calls back to back, which is crazy. So, I am managing my calendar, creating space on Mondays and Fridays, every morning from 9 to 11; just blocking it. Like, just blocking time now, which is something that I had not done in the past. So again, I kind of feel like I need that pain to really motivate me to make the changes that I need to make, and a lot of what we teach other copywriters to do as well.

Rob: Yep, that sounds good. And you mentioned that you tried a new product, this Accelerator Plus is what we called it, tentatively—an experiment that we ran, because we wanted to be able to connect with the people who have been in the Accelerator but aren’t ready, for whatever reasons, to move up into the Think Tank, and you know, we put together a little bit of a program, it was a test; we didn’t launch anything, we didn’t really advertise or tell anybody about it, accept for a few of the people who had been in the Accelerator, and with all of the other stuff that was going on in our businesses, and the other launches that we already talked about, it was just too much, you know?

It was one of those things where we had all these great intentions about creating something else, and we just felt like we couldn’t give it 100% because of all of that other stuff going on in our lives, so we pulled the plug, which is the first time we’ve ever done anything like that. And as you mentioned earlier, we see everything as an experiment. It’s never a failure to stop something that’s not working, or to stop something that you can’t give 100% to, because you and I want to deliver the very best that we possibly can, and if the experience we’re creating isn’t phenomenal, then we don’t want to be apart of that. And so, yeah. We actually experimented something and then pulled the plug on it, within a month, because it just didn’t feel like it was meeting everybody’s needs.

Kira: Yeah, and I feel like it was a good decision, because it allowed us to start having a bigger conversation about what we want to create, what we want to continue to offer… Basically, like, what are our offers; what can we do really well. So I feel like i forced us to think about all the difference pieces because you and I have been in the weeds so much, and I like to operate in the weeds and kind of stay in the weeds, and have a hard time pulling back. So we were forced even to just sit down, you know for a couple of hours last week, and talk through the vision and what we actually are building, what we’re putting together, which was a really good conversation. So, i guess the silver lining is that it allowed us to figure out what we can do well, and to focus on that.

Rob: Yeah. So, we’ve been really busy, I think is the takeaway from all of this conversation over the last couple of months, and hopefully as we start to approach Summer, we can take a little bit of a step back, relax, be a little bit focused on what we’re building, doing the right stuff in both our own businesses, and The Copywriter Club.

Kira: Right! And we both are taking time in July at different times to go on vacation with our families, and so I think it’s easy for me to work hard when I know that vacation is not that far away, and I really truly want to unplug. So, it makes it easier to hustle a little harder at the beginning of the year. Especially during Winter! What else are you going to do during January and February, right?

Rob: Yeah, when it’s cold out, there’s ice, you know… Who wants to go out in that? Not me.

Kira: So, how is the Facebook group, Rob?

Rob: Laughs. That is a great question. You know, we’ve had a few things happen over the last couple of weeks that I think we want to just talk through a little bit with everybody. We posted some conversations in Facebook, but, the way Facebook works, a lot of that stuff gets lost, and we just want to be really clear about a couple of things so that everybody knows where we stand, and why sometimes we let things go, maybe longer than people feel appropriate, that kind of thing. So, our Facebook group has reached 7,800 people as of this last week, and continues to grow. We have hundreds of people every week asked to get in. We don’t let every single person in, because we want to make sure that they’re copywriters—they’re working copywriters. We want to make sure their Facebook profiles are real; you know, they’re real people, and they’re not bots or people that are people pretending to be somebody else.

So, for instance, if somebody asked to get in and their Facebook profile picture is Brad Pitt, or something like that, then you know, those people don’t get in. But, we’ve been growing like crazy. We have a ton of copywriters that want to get into the group, and we’re happy to welcome all of them. Really want to make it a place where we can focus and have great discussions, and occasionally we have discussions that turn out to be not-so-great. Not because of the intention, necessarily, but because certain comments go a certain way, or they touch on a political theme, or something else. And so, I think we just want to talk through with everybody what our approach to that stuff is, and where we’re headed in the future.

Kira: Yeah and, let’s just say that we have not scripted this out, other than Rob and I have had, you know, many conversations about this, especially recently, but to me, you know, this group? We created this group to create really positive space for copywriters, because Rob and I are clearly community-focused people; we met in a mastermind group, so we both are prove that, together, as cheesy as it sounds, we can really help each other as copywriters, especially since most of us are working from home, co-working spaces. We’re not around other copywriters day to day. So, let’s take this space online, and we’ve been in other Facebook groups, many other groups—we’re in a lot of other groups now—and I have been in groups where it didn’t feel good, and it was very negative, and I left very quickly, and maybe that was just one experience, or maybe that was just the tone of the group—I don’t know—so ultimately, when we created this group, we wanted it to be for the copywriter’s that don’t believe in creating negative spaces and belittling each other, and drama.

So we wanted to keep it really positive. A place that the two of us want to hang out. And we even said from the beginning: if it’s not a place that we look forward to going during the day, you know, in between client work and kind of escaping our client work, or even procrastinate and to go into this group and connect with other copywriters, and help other copywriters and ask questions, if it turned into something where the two of us don’t want to hand out there, then we really need to question what we’re doing, what we’re creating. And it hasn’t been that way, right? I mean, it’s been a very positive space; people have said it’s different from other groups. We haven’t done everything right the entire time, just because we’re learning as we go—it has not been perfect, but I feel like we try to adjust and deal with everything that we’re facing day-to-day, month-to-month, as it’s all new to us. Right?

Rob: Yeah. I mean there is a lot that goes on in that group. We have more than 20 posts a day; the engagement is incredibly high; thousands of members; in fact, more than 6,000 members every month engage in some way with the content of our group. So there’s a lot going on, and as you can imagine with members of the group, from literally almost a hundred countries around the world, there are different cultures; different political beliefs; there are different beliefs about the appropriate roles of men and women, and… I think that’s part of what makes it so interesting, because there’s so much different thinking, and so many different viewpoints that come in, but it also causes some clashes of cultures where, you know, people have very strong viewpoints about the appropriateness of something or another, and I’ll just bring up a couple of posts that have happened recently.

A couple of weeks ago there was a post in which somebody asked about a piece of copy that they had written, and they used a phrase that has not historically been racist; it has roots thousands of years ago in Greek history. But because it included a word that has been used as a racist slur, a lot of people felt like that term was racist. And, there was a really healthy discussion around that, but some people felt offended by the fact that others weren’t willing to see such a thing as being racist. People wanted to look at a phrase being different from the word, and all this kind of stuff that came out.

And then a second discussion that happened around some sexist language, you know; I think the post was put up somewhat jokingly about “man-splaining” certain things, and the fees that women charge versus men, and it sparked a discussion that, again, at one point became very personal; people felt personally attacked, and didn’t feel like that kind of conversation we wanted to have in the group. And like you said, when we started out, we wanted to create a group that was a safe space for people to discuss ideas, but isn’t necessarily a safe space from ideas.

Now that doesn’t mean we wanted people to be offended, or that we want to welcome people to post offensive kinds of things, but we do want to be able to talk about things, especially language which can be so loaded, depending on where you’re coming from and what you believe, but talking about language is ways that it doesn’t get talked about everywhere else.

Kira: Yeah, and the tough part with all of this—so, with your first example about the term that has a racist connotation—when do we turn it off? Right? When has the lesson been learned where the person who posted and didn’t know that it was racist, they learned their lesson, and the conversation is over? That’s the tricky part, especially because Rob and I, and Brit—out lovely community manager—like we aren’t in there; we don’t see everything. We can’t catch it in real time. So we’re trying to figure out when’s the right time to cut off conversations, so we’re not over-policing, which many of you have asked us not to do as well, and we don’t want to do that. But when do we cut if off? When it has it gone too far? When has the lesson been learned?

So, for me, as soon as we find out that this term does have racist connotation, then for me, for the lesson is learned: okay, now we know; the conversation’s over. We learned the lesson here, we don’t need to continue to talk about it. That was the question and now we know; a lot of people didn’t know. So I think Rob and I are trying to figure out that tipping point of when conversations need to end, when they shouldn’t even go up, when they have bad intention, right?

So we’re really looking now at the post: what is this person thinking when they post it? Are they really asking a question, or are they just trying to get a rise out of the community? Because we’re not interested in that. We don’t want people to just post something controversial for the sake of posting something controversial. We want people to post something to help the people in the group and to start a conversation that will somehow be connected to copywriters as a profession, and what we do as a profession. So we’re looking now at the intention behind posts as well. Do you want to add anything to that?

Rob: Yeah. I would say, we do not necessarily want to censor everything. We don’t want to create a group where everything has to be approved before it goes live, because if people post, they’ve got to wait for you or I to come online to get those discussions going, and that’s really not what the group is about. We trust everybody in the group to be mature and adults about the discussions that are there, to engage in a positive vibe, and to be able to talk about hard things in ways that help other people understand what’s going on. And it’s okay to have differing opinions, to walk away from a conversation and not agree, but we definitely are going to be taking a closer look, especially at things like name-calling and derogatory terms, used particularly against individuals, and we will be looking at posts, a little bit more of a better eye, as to, you know, the intent behind it, like you were saying.

Kira: Yeah. I mean ultimately, we don’t want to create a bubble, right? There are other groups that I’m in; they’re great, but everyone kind of has a similar viewpoint, and belief system, and there is a place for that, but that isn’t what we want to create here. And so, our goal is to figure out how to do this, to do it well, and to keep the bar really high. I think we all deserve that, as copywriters. And so, at this point, if someone posts something, and we find that the intention behind it is not to help or to learn, or to cultivate community, anything like that, then we’re going to look at it more closely. We’ll warn people if it’s something that feels just inappropriate, and if it’s just completely off the walls, then we will kick somebody out. We don’t want to kick people, but we will if we have to. We haven’t kicked out many people at this point, right Rob? I mean I haven’t kicked out anybody I know. We’ve had to kick out a couple of people.

Rob: Yeah, we have kicked out a few people, mostly for name-calling. You know, really negative. We had that happen last spring to one or two people. But after that, you know, it’s only really been a few people who post inappropriate things in the group and it’s not necessarily even been racist or sexist, but you know the same things over and over, or things that are promoting their own services; those kinds of things. So we really don’t want to get to that point where we’re heavy-handed with anything.

I think the one other takeaway about all of this is that, because it’s so hard to understand where other people are coming from or whether the intent is good, that it’s always a good idea just to assume that the intention was not evil, was not negative, that we really are trying to help each other out or throwing out ideas, and that even if the language is indelicate, even if the language might potentially be offensive, the intention probably wasn’t to be offensive. And so, at that point, let’s start a conversation about hey, just so you know, I’m offended by this, and this is why, and you know, again, have a very adult discussion about how language can impact different people.

We don’t have to agree, you don’t have to walk off and say, I’m changing the way I talk to everybody, but it can be eye-opening to see that, okay, if this term is offensive to somebody, maybe I won’t use that in the future.

Kira: Right, and I think we can say again, we want this group to be open to all copywriters, as long as you are a copywriter or have a heavy interest in copywriting, we want to welcome you. So as long as you’re not a robot, you’re welcome in this group. And if you have good intentions, we want you to be in here.

Rob: Absolutely. So, we don’t want to end on this note, because maybe it’s not as positive as we’d like, and so, you know, I also want to talk about a podcast I listened to a few weeks ago. It’s actually not a new podcast, it’s been out for a little while, but it’s an episode of The Hidden Brain that talked about scarcity.

And, it was really fascinating to me as I listened to this podcast because scarcity is one of those things that we talk about all the time as copywriters, how we need to make sure that out customers or clients are experiencing scarcity so that they buy more, and you know, I just wanted to throw out this for people to go and listen to, you know. If you listen to podcasts, check out this episode on scarcity from The Hidden Brain, because it’s really interesting in what it says about scarcity.

And again, we all use scarcity and we can talk maybe for a minute or two about why, and why it’s a good thing, and the impact that it has; not just on the writing that we do for our clients, but also on usin our own businesses.

Kira: All right, so what was your biggest takeaway from that podcast?

Rob: So, what was most interesting to me, was that when we’re in a scarcity mindset, we don’t make decisions very wisely. And this is actually one of the reasons why it’s such a powerful motivator. So, The Hidden Brain Podcast quoted a survey that looked at Indian sugarcane farmers. And Indian sugarcane farmers get paid once a year, which means when they harvest everything, they have a lot more money than they usually do, and like everyone else, they don’t always spend their money wisely, and so as they get, you know, through the end of the summer, they end up being very poor, and don’t have resources that they need. So they enter into this scarcity mindset.

And so, you know, right up until say September when the harvest happens, they’re very poor, and then within a week or two, they’re much better off than they were before. And the kind of decision-making that they do changes when they have resources versus when they don’t. When they have a lot of resources, impulse-control is a lot easier. They don’t make bad decisions. And, it’s not just around spending money wisely, but all of the decision-making they do is better thought out as opposed to when they don’t have resources. They’re more impulse-driven; they make poorer decisions.

And that applies to us in our businesses as well, you know; we’ll see in the Facebook group people are suddenly… they’ll throw up a post saying I need clients right now, what do you do to get clients right now? And because they’re feeling that scarcity, not having clients puts them into that mode where they’re not making the best decisions, and it’s very difficult at that point to step outside of ourselves and take a look and see at what’s happening, and so we start doing bad things like, you know, really poor email pitches, cold outreaches that aren’t going to end well because again we’re not thinking through the entire process.

And, think about this from your client’s standpoint, when you’re writing and implementing scarcity into your sales letters, or into a webpage. If you can stimulate that scarcity—this is going to actually sound really manipulative—but they don’t always think through their decisions, and so often times they’ll buy more, or they’ll make a purchase decision that they could regret later, and so we need to be really careful about how we use that, and also how we reinforce decision-making to make sure that it’s the right kind of decision. Does that all make sense?

Kira: Yeah. I’m just thinking through; there’s so many different angles as to how you write your copy with scarcity, and then how you’re running your business. So what would you say to copywriters who are feeling that scarcity and are really almost like desperate to find work to get paid this month, next month? How can they reverse that when they feel that pressure, so maybe they are writing a less-stellar cold email?

Rob: Yeah. Well I think the first step is you need to recognize that you are in a scarcity mindset. You need to really stop and say, okay; what’s going on here is I’m panicking because I’m missing the thing that I feel like I need, whether that’s clients or income or the resource that is scarce. You need to take a step back and say, okay, what’s the outcome that I need here? And really think through what is the best way for me to move forward to get to that outcome, to eliminate all of the panic; to eliminate the poor thinking that goes alone when you are obsessed with something like, I need to find another client, or, I need to earn another thousand dollars to make the mortgage, something like that.

Kira: Maybe it could also be, you know, when you hit that mode where you realize, okay I’m feeling a bit desperate, I’m not feeling great about this, I need to make a thousand bucks ASAP, to focus on what feels uncomfortable, which is just kind of service and helping others. So, it doesn’t mean to necessarily work for free, but the most recent time this has happened to me where all of the sudden I had a slower month after being busy for months and months and months, I’ve just had a moment where I freaked out and was feeling that scarcity. You know: where are all the leads? Where did they go? I had so many last month!

And what helped for me is just going out to all of my contacts and a lot of my copywriter friends, and just saying, hey, how I can I help anybody overwhelmed, anybody overloaded—how can I help you? I’ll take on work; I’ll take whatever you’ve got, I just want to make some cash, and I’ll work hard for you, right? And that helped. I landed a couple of jobs that way, and then just pushed through, and then all of the sudden the leads started to flow again, and part of that you have to do the foundational work, which is building partnerships and relationships ahead of time so that you have people you can go to offer to help, but at least for me that helped in a situation where I was feeling that desperation, and it helped me overcome it by just putting myself out there, being humble enough to take whatever I could. Not feeling bad, really, about saying hey, I don’t have work this month. I think we all have to be able to say that as copywriters if you want to get over, or get through those droughts, and not be too proud during those times.

Rob: Yeah, as you say, I think having a network can really help you deal with these kinds of things, for the very reason that you said: you know, they can help provide work. But they can also give you that feedback and say, “hey, wait a second; what you’re feeling is panic, and it’s brought on by the fact that you’re missing something that you feel like you need. So take a step back and look at it.”

The other thing too that I would say is this is one reason why, especially once we’ve had a little bit of success, we need to be really careful about saving up just a little bit of money, so that there’s always a little bit of money in the bank, you don’t ever hit that total panic where the mortgage is due tomorrow and you don’t have money to pay it. Now, I know that’s a really difficult thing to say to somebody that’s just starting out or somebody that’s in that space, but it’s probably worth while thinking through just personal finances, and you know, what you need to live on, how can you put some money away for the future, because all of us hit those month or two months where, you know, the leads slow down, or they may dry up altogether before it starts back up, and you don’t want to be in the situation where you’re panicking and doing everything wrong.

Kira: Yeah, you’re probably better at that than I am, the whole saving concept.

Rob: We’ll see. We’ll see, if my savings ever run out.

Kira: I just hit the panic mode or I freak out.

Rob: Yeah. But you can see why it’s such a powerful motivator, and why, when we use it on our own sales pages, if you’re using it wisely—which we would also suggest people should do—it is a powerful motivator for people to get the thing that they’re lacking, and to help our clients to sale more things.

Kira: Right, but how do you create it? I mean, we don’t want to promote creating false scarcity, right? So, if you’re selling something but there isn’t necessarily scarcity built into it, how can you create that without really manipulating anyone?

Rob: Yeah. That’s the magic question. I’ve seen some really manipulative stuff that turned me off. I was looking at a course tool last week, in fact, and they sent me an email saying “hey, if you buy in the next four hours, you get all this stuff at half price, but this deal goes away in four hours because we’re launching something in another month.” And I was like, well then why does it go away in four hours if it’s not even happening until next month, right? It felt really manipulative, and actually turned me off; I didn’t end up buying the thing.

Compare that to say, Amazon or hotels when you’re booking and it says something like, you know, only two more rooms at this price; assuming that that’s true, then that’s actually a better use of scarcity, right? Because I want to make sure that I get that room at that price. Again, it can be used very manipulatively. And, you don’t want to do that. I think, you know, we need to be honest about whether scarcity is the right selling tool for some of the things we sell. Oftentimes, it’s not.

Oftentimes we should be looking at other behavior triggers to pull instead of scarcity. If something is evergreen, then it’s not scarce, even if you put a countdown timer on it, and you, you know, only limit it to the people as soon as they join your list. That’s still false scarcity, and it’s manipulative, and I think for most things it’s probably not the right way forward, and there’s maybe a better argument to make for your client to buy your product.

Kira: All right; so we’ve covered the latest in our businesses, the Facebook group, and scarcity. What’s coming up next for you that you’re really excited about, over the next—let’s say—month or two?

Rob: Well, we do have a couple of things that we’re working on in The Copywriter Club. Hopefully we’re going to our new website up. Anybody who’s ever been to our website knows how horrible it is, and it was put up, sort of, as a placeholder, and we’ve been working on new designs for quite awhile. People have seen the new logo and that kind of thing, so I’m excited to get that up, and to have a new home base where The Copywriter Club lives. So, we’ve got that.

You and I are working on something else for the entire club that we’re not yet ready to announce, and some changes and some awesome things that I think people are going to appreciate over the next three or four months. Hopefully we can get those done and out. And, I’m honestly looking forward to summer, to having just a little bit more time to myself, to take a little time away. And, you know, relax a little bit. How about you? What’s coming up next for Kira Hug?

Kira: Yeah, everything you just said. And, I’m excited about our Accelerator program, and our Think Tank program, because we have all the people in, and so now that we have everyone, we just get to work with them and hang out with them and get to know them, and help them. So, the pressure for launching is off, and we just get to do the work, and get to know these copywriters. And, yeah. It’s a different pace, and I’m looking forward to a slower pace, and scheduling more time over the summer just for fun and for pleasure, and taking off and not being such a workaholic this summer.

Rob: I can’t wait to watch you do that. Or maybe not do that.

Kira: Laughs. Yeah, we’ll see; we’ll if I can do it.

Rob: We have some really good episodes coming up on the podcast that we’ve recorded already; we’ve got a really big name that’s going to join us for episode number 100 as kind of a celebratory episode, so that’s still a couple months out, but I’m excited about that stuff too. There’s just so many smart people we get to talk to on a weekly basis, and it really is an opportunity just to keep learning and getting better at our businesses.

Kira: All right. Well, thanks for listening to this 90thepisode, non-episode update. We appreciate it.

Rob: Yep, we appreciate it. Thanks everybody.


You’ve been listening to The Copywriter Club Podcast with Kira Hug and Rob Marsh. If you like what you’ve heard, you can help us spread the word by subscribing in iTunes, and by leaving a review. For show notes, a full transcript, and links to our free Facebook community, visit We’ll see you next episode.



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