TCC Podcast 35: Going "Live" on Facebook with Misha Hettie - The Copywriter Club
TCC Podcast 35: Going “Live” on Facebook with Misha Hettie

Copywriter (and photographer) Misha Hettie is in the Copywriter Club studio to talk copy and Facebook Live this week. Kira and Rob asked Misha about her business and she shared a ton of great advice, including her thoughts on:
•  the importance of branding yourself as a copywriter (and not looking like everyone else)
•  how she became a “brand story evangelist”
•  what beginners should do to get started on Facebook Live
•  what is the biggest mistake people make on Facebook Live
•  her “big rock method” for creating content for Facebook
•  her “don’t-miss-it” advice to everyone seeking balance in their lives

As usual, there’s a ton of great information in this episode. If you’ve ever thought about using video in your business, this is don’t miss advice. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.

The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:

Sponsor: AirStory Misha’s website
Misha’s about page
Silicone Valley Title Generator
Joanna Wiebe
Todd Herman
13 Reasons Why
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
Intro: Content (for now)
Outro: Gravity

Full Transcript:

The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at

Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about the successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s was Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast.

Kira: You’re invited to join the Club for Episode 35, as we chat with copywriter Misha Heady about using social media in her copywriting business, and what other writers could be doing better there. Juggling her time as a parent, writer, photographer and coach, how Facebook Live has impacted her business and spending an afternoon taking photos of Rob and me in San Antonio.

Rob: Hey Misha.

Kira: Hello Misha.

Misha: Hey guys, how are you?

Rob: We’re great, how are you?

Kira: Thanks.

Misha: Yeah, I’m okay. I’m having a bit of a morning here, and I don’t know if you can her my dog in the background, but I apologize if you could.

Rob: We did hear a little bit but I think was might be able with cut most of that out.

Misha: Okay, I’m sorry. I swear to God. She’s like, “Oh, you’re on a call, let me go freak out about something.

Kira: It’s okay. I think it’s been one of those days for all three of us, which means this is going to be a great conversation.

Rob: Exactly.

Misha: Yeah.

Kira: So, Misha, let’s start with, you know, where you come from. Because you are this multi-talented, creative, big personality, you’ve played a really big role in the copywriter club, so where did you come from. What were you doing before you were in the club as a copywriter?

Misha: Well, Kira, when a man and a woman love each other very, very much … okay, JK, terrible, terrible joke. So, where do I come from? I used to be a nine-to-fiver, like most people, and one day I lost my job, and I was like, I got to figure this out. It’s actually a longer story than that, but that’s, you know, the gist of it. And in that last position, I had been using a lot of social media tools to kind of grow people’s knowledge of our gallery. It was a tile gallery. This is like way back in the day when Flicker was like the hottest thing around.

To grow people’s knowledge of our gallery, and at the same time I was studying photography more, so that is basically the short story of how I became and entrepreneur, because it’s not a very poetic story, but it’s the truth.

Rob: Walk us this step-by-step. So, you lost your job, and then suddenly you weren’t a writer/photographer, whatever. As for as setting up your business, tell us more about that process.

Misha: Oh, no. It was literally that next day. No, just kidding. The seedy underbelly of the story is that I was actually five months pregnant, and they closed the showroom that I was working in. And, as a dude you don’t know this, but when you are five months pregnant, like visibly pregnant, no one wants to hire you, like with a ten-foot pole. So I was in this position of, I need to make money for my family, and no one wants to hire me, so what am I going to do?

It took some time to figure it out, because I was afraid to make that leap from steady paycheck to working for myself. I thank the great State of Texas for the jucy unemployment checks. That was very helpful at the time. Literally, the day I was in labor with my daughter, I bought my first domain name, and I went from there. I figured it out. Threw together same pricing packages for photography and started taking clients when my daughter was about six weeks old.

Kira: You started with photography, and then how did you make your way into the copywriting world and really kind of specialize as a communicator, a strategic communicator?

Misha: I wish I had really cool stories about this. I wish there was some sort of movie moment where people were chanting my name or something like that, but I actually moved. At the time that I was a photographer, I built myself up from my first client paying me like $175 to regularly selling packages that were $2,400 and above, and then I moved from Texas to California. And the problem with that is when you are a local service provider, you have to have a local clientele.

When I moved, I had no one and nothing. So I spent that time blogging about photography, and how to improve your photography business. Yeah, people started hiring me for my opinion, because they’re like, “Well you grew your business in under a year, from, like I said, 175 bucks to 2,400 bucks per client. How can we do that too?” That is when I started offering communications coaching and copywriting services. It was like a totally organic thing because that’s what my people were asking me for.

Rob: Yeah, I was going to say, you know, even when I go to your website, it’s photography based, but, you know, I know you as a writer because you’re showing up in our group as a writer. Do you start with the photo products and then people ask you for help with the writing, or do you actually have a way that you approach clients for copywriting as well?

Misha: Now, it’s morphed into something where I keep the two completely separate. The photo business is its own animal, and then the copywriting is my main jam. Basically, I decided if I didn’t have to leave my house ever, that would be better. I could write for anyone in the world to any time of day, and not have to worry about rain, you know, or bugs, like you guys got to experience some of our Texas bugs the other day.

When I approach a copywriting client, it’s from a copywriting standpoint only. I will, occasionally, like let’s say it’s a communication strategy client, I will say, the images on your site, they’re kind of problematic because it doesn’t fit your aesthetic, of whatever, so I do offer a side dish of that, but the copywriting is my main jam, if you will.

Kira: Okay, and because you mentioned it, can you just share the breakdown of your services under the copy communications arm of your business? Just to give us some context as to what your putting out there in the world and how you’re making money.

Misha: I know, I know, I’m supposed to niche down, I’m supposed to have a very specific answer for this, but …

Kira: No, that’s not true, that’s not true.

Misha: Yeah. I don’t do that. I do web and sales copy. I do specifically, when people are in the second or third iteration of their business, and it’s not quite right. I help them create a strategy for portraying themselves. And if sometimes that looks like web copy, I may redo their website, sometimes that looks like sales copy, and we sell their program, and sometimes it looks like both because they just don’t know how to express what it is that they sell. I would say my main thing that I offer is copy with strategy.

Rob: I started looking a some of the images on your website, and I’m really hungry now. Your website has this total food vibe, and it’s showing off so many of your photography skills in additional to how you help people with copywriting. Let’s talk a little bit more about the typical project for you. When a customer comes to you for help with copywriting, what’s the onboarding process look like? How do you figure out was you’re going to do with them. Just talk about that whole process of getting to know the customer and producing work for them.

Misha: And you know my process is very organic. It’s not very contrived. I don’t have a lot of documents for people to fill out or anything. But because of that, I spend a lot of time talking with them directly, so that’s a lot of phone calls, a lot of Skype, a lot of note taking on my part. What I’m doing when we have that conversation is I’m not just saying, tell me about your program, tell me about your business, I’m saying, “So tell me how your husband. And when you guys were in Argentina, what did you think about the culture?” I ask this questions that have nothing to do with their program or business, because I want of hear the actual cadence of their voice.

I want to hear their personality, because to me it’s very important to be able to portray that in their copy. I feel like if you have someone that you’re looking to hire, and let’s say their website is very hyper, and very out there, and very in your face, and then you get them on the phone, and they’re like, “Hey, so”, that creates serious mismatch, and when there’s that moment of confusion for the client, they’re not going to get hired. So, I spend most of my time talking to them about stuff that has nothing to do with their business. And then I produce their copy for them, and we have another meeting. If they’re happy, then they go forward and if they’re not, we get a revision, and then that’s that. Like I said, very low-fi.

Kira: Cool And so it seems like you have a way of, you know, branding comes naturally to you. I mean it’s a big part o what you do as a photographer, and with all of your businesses, so can you just speak to the importance of branding as a copywriter, because there’s so many of us and we can all look the same at different times. We’re all kind of competing for similar jobs, so how do we stand out. I know that’s a question that’s popped into the Club a lot. And from your experience, how have you stood out?

Misha: Well, the one thing I did … This is just how I’ve always been. When you grow up a nerd you have certain characteristics that are just with you for life, right? And growing up, it was like, well, I’ll never but that cheerleader type, so I’m just going to do what I want to do and people can like it or not like it. So when it come time to make my copywriting website, I know you’re supposed to have photos of like your pretty desk and, I don’t know, a vase full of tulips, or something like that, especially if you’re trying to appeal to a female aesthetic. But I was like, you know what? No, I want to do this differently. I want to do something fun that makes people excited and happy.

So my photographer and I actually come up with the concept of, I don’t know if you’ve seen it, it’s on, I think my About Page, but the concept of, he’s like, “So, what is it that you do?” And I said, “Okay, well I take the boring and I make it fun and interesting.” That’s when we come up with the concept of me taking plain donuts and painting them purple. Yeah, and then that concept grew from there. Like, when you’re sitting at your desk, do you want to look at somebody else’s desk, or do you want with look a some delicious treats?

So, I just mined my existing body of work, and that’s how I come up with the concept that exists right now. But for somebody else, that won’t work. If you try to copy somebody else’s aesthetic, it will absolutely fall flat for you and people will smell it a mile away, right? So, as a copywriter, when to comes time to create your own brand, I would basically, you can make a big Pinterest board, you can make vision board, you can take notes, whatever, but you want to consider your own actual personality. Your image, your experience, what is different about you?

That’s a great question that I like to ask my clients, too. My copywriting clients, when I’m interviewing them, I say, “Who is your closets competitor and how are you different and better?” And then we focus on that. I don’t think enough people do that. I think so many people just rush to the table, and think, oh, well I offer the same as Joe Blow, so I’m going to make my site the same as their’s and then they they to do stand apart and no one wants to buy from them.

Rob: So, Misha, you mentioned About Page, which has got this killer photo at the top, but you also mention on there that you are the friendly neighborhood brand store evangelist, and there’s a funny story that we need to ask you about that. So, I’m asking. Tell us the story.

Misha: Yeah, okay, it’s actually, it’s not that good of a story. I have kind of oversold it, I admit. When I came up with website, I literally jot down and wrote the copy for the entire site and one afternoon. I was stuck on, “what do I want to call myself?” because I feel like I’m more than just a copywriter. I feel like when you give yourself just that label of one thing, people don’t really fully understand what it is that bring to the table, so there’s this thing, called the Silicon Valley Title Generator. And I went to a website, and I clicked the button, and that was the first one that came up, and I was like, boom, that’s my title.

Rob: It’s like the Stripper name and Hogwarts name, and all those kinds of things, yeah.

Misha: Yeah, exactly. So, I’m a Brand Story Evangelist. And I was like, this fit perfectly. I’m going to go ahead and take this as a divine message from the universe that I should be a Brand Story Evangelist.

Kira: Well, and your Facebook Live videos, you say that you’re the friendly … how do you introduce yourself? You say the friendly neighborhood copywriter? No, when do you say-

Misha: Your favorite copywriter.

Kira: Favorite.

Misha: Communication strategist, yeah.

Kira: I like it though, because you’re consistent. At least every video I’ve seen, you are consistent with your intro, and you really have your Facebook Live down. And I mean, that’s what caught my attention early on with you, because I have not seen many copywriters really use Facebook Live, I mean, definitely some of us dabble in it, but you’re consistent and so, are you going live every single day, at this point?

Misha: I had a good run of 90 days in a row, where I went live every single day, and then I sort of fell apart a little bit. But I’m coming back, baby, I’m coming back.

Kira: With that, there’s a ton of questions, but I think a good place to start for people who have not jumped into the Facebook Live world, do you have any advice on just kind of simplifying it, so it doesn’t seem so daunting and overwhelming to people who have not gone live before?

Misha: Absolutely. So people, the number one thing that they’re afraid of is looking foolish, I’m guessing. And first of all, just go ahead in let go of that because you might look foolish, oh, well, you can always delete the live. You have to go ahead and mentally lower the stakes for yourself, because the odds that, who is the person you want to impress most in the world? Like, Kira, who do you want to impress more that anybody?

Kira: Rob.

Misha: Okay, what are the odds that Rob is-

Rob: So not true.

Misha: What are the odds that he’s going to be sitting there watching your Facebook Live and watching the entire thing and sit there in judgment of you? The odds are very, very slim, right? If you just get started, and make your first one, I’m gonna tell you right now, it’s probably going to suck, and that’s okay, because you can always delete it. To takes, in my experience … so when I started the whole Facebook Live experiment last year, when Facebook Live came out, I decided I was going to have other people come along on the ride with me.

I started a Facebook group, and we went live every day. It’s actually just a video group, because I didn’t want people to have that hanging over their heads, the live thing. The live thing, some people will get on video, but they won’t go live, and I think it’s because they’re afraid that, I don’t know that anything could happen. Well, like I said, I’ve done over 100 Facebook Live, and not very much happens. Sometimes my dog barks, but beyond that, the roof never caved in, you know what I’m saying?

So, anyways I noticed a trend. When people got to about 25 Facebook Lives, they were pretty darn good, and that was pretty consistently across the board. And the first one, they were like, “Hey, this is so and so …” I created a framework for the people in that group. All you need to do is create your introduction, share a piece of content, and then create a great call to action, and once they have that framework to work from they were able to get better really quickly.

Rob: Yeah, lets dive into this, because Kira and I have talked several times about, they know, to do more video, whether was do You Tube or Facebook, so obviously, we need to just start doing it, is the first step. But is there an optimal length of video, you know, are their backgrounds that we should but doing, to be doing thing differently? Are there things that we should be doing with copy on the video itself?

Misha: So, like most things in the copywriting world, the answer is, it depends. And you want to think about the goal of each piece of content. I you just want people to see your face, hear your voice, and get used to you and get to know you, because of course once they know you, they will like they, trust you and pay you. If that’s your only goal, then no, there is no optimal length. My videos are as long as it takes to teach whatever concept I’m teaching that day.

However, if you are playing by You Tube’s rules, you want your watch time to be about three minutes, because any longer than that, your viewership falls off, and YouTube starts punishing you, and so you won’t get to rank as much. So, that’s those. In terms of other best practices, I have noticed that my posts with long introductory text, get more response on the post, but the video gets more response on the video, if I just add a sentence or two. Like today, we’re talking about how to raise your rates. Come and listen. Again, it just depends on the goal of each piece of content, and what it you’re trying to accomplish.

Kira: What drives you crazy, because you’ve watched other people’s Facebook Lives, what kind of drives you crazy because we all do it and it’s just obnoxious, or not professional, or whatever, just something that we can correct and be aware of?

Misha: Sure, I’m not super-duper interested in being really professional, I think you guys could tell that from the Daily Nest-

Kira: Well I was going to say that as I said that, maybe professional it’s the right word because the whole point is that it’s not professional, right? It’s not polished video, it’s like live and rough.

Misha: Exactly, and that’s part of the beauty of it, is that they can interact with you. It’s live, anything could happen, even though it won’t. So, that’s part of the excitement of Facebook Live But one thing that I really don’t like is when people, you have to understand, every piece of content you put out is made with the intention of establishing a relationship with your audience. You’re and just Facebook Living in a vacuum, and if you are, that’s great, but get a better hobby, right?

When you disrespect your audience, and you make your topic like meander, or you start telling a random story that has nothing to do with it and you never come back, that is to me the biggest sin you can … Because how many whacks at the pinata do you think you get with your audience? If they watch two videos and they both are boring, and they don’t get what it is they’re looking for, they’re not coming back for more, right?

Rob: And that’s probably why a lot of people don’t do it.

Misha: I think, though, that it’s, of course I can say this because I’m on the other side of having done it, if you just create that small framework. Like, let’s say what’s your favorite topic to talk about, Rob?

Rob: Copy, I guess, you know, at least as far as this show goes, copy. I like cycling. A couple of other hobbies, like reading. But let’s say copy.

Misha: Okay, we’ll say copy. So let’s say you wanted to connect with your audience and educate your audience, because I think they’re only four or five main goals for each piece of content. But let’s say you decided today you wanted to connect and educate on the topic of copy. Well what are the top three things that your audience needs to know, your ideal client needs to know about hiring you for copy, let’s say?

Rob: They probably need to know that I’m competent, that I’m going to perform well, and that I’m going to get their customer, so that what we create is going to convert.

Misha: Perfect, so that is your entire video script. You’ve got your introduction, “Hey guys, this is Rob, and I’m the copywriter that XYZ, and today I want to tell you about why I excel at providing you with copy. Here are the three reasons why. All right, thanks so much for checking out this video. Go ahead and like my Facebook page, or share — you only get one CTA — share it with people who might need to know an awesome copywriter.” That’s your entire script. When you have got that bare bones written out, stick to it, and then finish your video and get the heck off.

Kira: How do you plan out your content, especially when you were doing 90 days in a row? Did you map it out ahead of time, or you just like, the day of, you know, I want talk about this today. I’m just going to jump in and do it.

Misha: Sometimes I wing it and sometimes I have a goal that I’m working towards. What I do, which to plan my year, I’ve deemed it the big rock method, where I say, okay, I want to host a life get-together in May. I want to opEn my Communication Academy in July, or whatever it is, and I notate these on the calendar, and then I move backwards from there. So, let’s say I was making a class on Facebook Live, I would say, okay, for the two weeks preceding that, I will talk about Facebook, you know, what you can accomplish with Facebook Live, what you can learn in this class for those two weeks. But other than that, yeah, I just wing it. Sometimes I just get mad and then I go on Facebook Live about whatever that made me mad.

Rob: And Misha, is it easy to — I’m asking this because we haven’t done Facebook Live — but is it easy to say, do a Facebook Live and then transfer that to YouTube, or would you say that they’re really different venues and we ought to be doing slightly different content for both?

Misha: You can actually do that, and that’s not a problem. You just have to be really smart about your intro and your call to action, because you want the content to appear native. So, write it in such a way that’s not like, “Hey, Facebook fans, how are you? Please click like,” because obviously on YouTube … or please follow my page … on YouTube, you would want to say subscribe. You could find a synonym that bridges both then we use that content, repurpose that content.

Kira: And what have you found is the impact on your business? Are you getting clients, and you know it’s through Facebook Live? Or are you still just kind of building the community and you’re cool with not necessarily pulling in clients from that channel at this point?

Misha: No, I get direct clients from Facebook Live. One of my most successful one was, five things I learned at dog training. And I literally just talked about one Call to Action because people won’t, if you give them too many things to do, they won’t pay attention. You want to remain in constant contact. Basically the lessons that I learned at a place called Sit mean Sit, which was the person that I hired to train my dog.

Rob: This is the dog that keeps barking in the background? Right?

Misha: This is, I know, she’s a semi-trained dog of average intelligence. But, yeah, she’s not wearing her collar today, so this is all my fault. This is a me problem, not a [Letton 00:21:25] problem. But anyways, yeah, so I played that video. I tagged the company in it and I have gotten actually quite a few coaching clients, who said, “Oh my gosh, you have explained that so well, we want to hire you as communication coach.” I’m like, “Okay, yes, let’s do it.”

Beyond that, let’s see, what else, what else. I’ve gotten so many … pretty much all of my Facebook page likes are from Facebook Live. I know it’s not a huge metric, to worry about anymore, page likes, because you can advertise way beyond the page like, but that’s still pretty cool to make a video and have people like you because of it, right?

Rob: Yeah, and I feel like we’re ping-ponging back and forth here with Kira and I, but there’s so much stuff here that I want to learn and that feels really good. If we were going to hire you as a producer, for the Copywriter Club, Facebook Live, put Kira and I on screen to make us look good, aside from the just do it, and scripting us out, anything else that you wd say, “Rob, Kira, you guys got to do this.”

Misha: Prepare for audience interaction and welcome that interaction. A lot of Facebook Live people ignore the comment section, but to me that’s the goal. That’s where all the interaction … Although, I got my first negative comment the other day. It was just the funniest thing.

Kira: What?

Misha: Yes, it was so funny, he said, okay, he said, “Well, if you say it is so, then it most be, huh?” And he called me a d-bag. I was like-

Kira: Geeze.

Misha: Yeah, it’s my Facebook page so, yes, if I say it’s so, yes, it is so.

Rob: Interesting.

Misha: Yeah, and you know what? That’s another thing, I guess, prepare for the negative comments, but don’t really worry about them. That was the first time that a total stranger had ever called me a name, so I feel like an achievement was unlocked that day.

Kira: How did you play it off from that comment?

Misha: Oh, I didn’t even see the comment. I saw it, but I didn’t read it. And then my friend, my business bestie, went total pitbull on him and was like chewing him out, and so I did see it then, and I just laughed. I was like, “This is hilarous to me, I don’t know you at all, you’re not my ideal client, I have zero care about what it is that you’re saying, but thanks for your opinion.” And then eventually, like, after a half an hour, of laughing at it, I deleted the comment, because you don’t come to my house and poop on my table, you know, I’m not going to leave it there. That was pretty funny.

Kira: Well, what type of audience interaction? I know the videos I’ve seen of you, you really are good at welcoming people and not only just saying their name, but you really give them a warm welcome this you’re really good about it. And so what should we do that’s just kind of like, again, welcoming someone into your house, you say hi to them, but I’ve also been on Facebook Live where it can get a little bit obnoxious when the presenter is just so distracted by the comments sections.

Rob: Yeah,

Kira: Like, what’s the right balance there?

Misha: I think the saying hi is great, especially and if they make a comment that is salient to the material, that’s really excellent interaction, so you want to praise them for that and keep them coming back for more. But when you’ve got that script, that skeleton written, you can keep coming back to it. Because sometimes people do get distracted and they totally lose the point of what it was they were trying of say. Its happened to me, yeah, keep coming back to your skeleton script, and like I said, just think them for their comments and move on.

I love my people. I hate to say this because it sounds so cheeseball, but I really, truly love and appreciate my audience members, so to me, it’s more that just, you know, “Oh hey Amy, oh hey, Christian,” or whatever. It really like a visit from a friend.

Rob: We’ve got to figure this stuff out, Kira. We’ve got to be showing up in our Facebook group Live.

Misha: You guy so should. You guys are adorable. Both of you.

Kira: Well, I was just thinking, so for our Club, its great because we already have a big of room of people to speak to, so I’m more incentivized to speak in there, but if a copywriter is listening, who maybe hasn’t built out the likes on their Facebook page, maybe they have people …. It just seems like it’s hard to go live to 10 people because you know no one’s … maybe you’ll get one person in there. Or does it not work that way?

Misha: You can always, when you are live at the time, first of all, a lot of people want that anonymity at the start, so that they can make sure that they’re finally comfortable with it, so it’s actually kind of a good thing if you don’t have a huge audience, because you don’t have a huge audience, because you don’t have a lot of people you can screw up in front of. I’ll talk more about that in a second.

Kira: Just your mom. Just your mom.

Misha: Just your mom, right? And my mom sees me, she’s seen me screw up for 30 something years, so its fine. But you can also share to your personal page and if you’re not using your personal page, if your friends and relatives don’t know that you’re a writer, like what are you even doing, dude? You can share to your personal page, just to increase your audience and then after its over you can boost that post. And that is what I do almost every single time.

Rob: And that’s paid advertising, right?

Misha: Yes.

Kira: I feel like we need a whole show just about boosting posts and Facebook, because I’m like, “Boosting a post, what is that? I mea I’m aware of it but I also have heard boosting your post doesn’t work. Anyway, I think that’s another tangent that we won’t necessarily go down right now. I would just like to ask you, you know, you also have a really strong brand on other social media channels, not just Facebook Live, so for the copywriter, who gets a bit overwhelmed by all the social media channels and everything we’re supposed to be doing, and how we’re supposed to show up, what would you say to them so that they can really focus and use it strategically, like you have, to get clients, and not just waste their time.

Misha: Well, thank you, thank you for that compliment embedded in there. I would say, go back to your ideal client exercise, and really work through that. Who is that person? What is their business? Who is it that you want to work with? And if you don’t know the answer to that, you’re gonna wade through a whole lot of crap before you get to good people. So, go to that ideal client exercise and figure out who it is do you want to work with and where do they hang out. L

Like, if it’s a business man who is, I don’t know, lets use a financial analyst. He’s probably not hanging out on Instagram, right? Chances are good, he’s more interested in LinkedIn and possible Twitter. So, those are the avenues that I would concentrate on. Let’s say you really want to attract, I don’t know, someone who sells to home schoolers. Then you might focus on somewhere like Pinterest. Really build out your blog posts and rock Pinterest. Basically, it’s like going fishing. You just have to decide where those fish are and then you go to those fishing holes and keep working until you’re excellent at those fishing holes.

Rob: Misha, I want to ask, because we tease this in the intro, a question that keeps coming up in the Copywriter Club all the time. We’re shifting gears just a little bit here, but people ask, “How can I balance writing with I’m about to have a baby or other things are going on in their lives, and you’re a parent. You not only do you do parenting, but you’re a writer, you’re a photographer, you’re doing business coaching. How do you balance it all? What are the tricks that you’re using to get to all done every day.

Misha: Okay, balance is bullshit. That is my mantra. Balance is bullshit. It’s more like a juggling act, but that’s okay. First of all, if you just realize that that’s how life is. A lot of people feel unhappy because they feel unsettled, like oh my God, my kid screwed up my writing time, now, I got to change it up and I’m so upset. Well, you know what dude, that’s the way that it is. You got to ride the wave as it’s coming to you. You can’t just sit there and ignore them as they pass you by.

As a parent, I am probably not winning any parental awards, because I make my kids … lets say, summer’s coming up and I know a lot of people, a lot of people who work at home are like, what this I going to do? How this I going to continue to rock my business during the summer? And the answer is, you create a framework for your kids and you expect this to stick with it and it’s the same thing for yourself. Like I make it a habit to get to the gym three times a week. The only way I can do that is if I say this is my habit. When I this picking up and putting down my different business hats, I simply live and die by my calendar, I say no to things regularly, and I’m happy to surf the wave.

Kira: So, you’re telling me that there’s no easy solution?

Misha: The easy solution is to stop giving so much of a shit about it. Like, I don’t know, I know there are some people who are so very, very rigid, I think that it’s the most unhappy way to live. I don’t know. Just realize that there is no easy solution, and embrace that. Drink a lot of coffee and then at 5:00 cocktail.

Kira: I like it. I can do that.

Misha: Easy to follow. Sorry Rob.

Rob: Yeah, I’ll have a Coke Zero. I can make that work. Yeah. But I love what you’re saying, though, about that. I agree, and in fact, I think Joanna Web, maybe shared that Todd Herman told her balance is for average people and that if you really want something to work out, you’ve got to go out after it, full steam ahead. I you want to be a good parent, you have got to put a ton of time into it. And if you want to be a good writer, you have got to put a ton of time in that and that might mean that there’s not a lot of space for anything else.

Misha: You know what? That’s a really good point. I don’t really watch very much television. I know people who are like, oh God, did you see Thirteen Reasons Why? No dude, sorry, I’m spending my time working, with my kids, at the gym, or that’s it. And because those are the things that make me happy, and that’s okay. I don’t mind missing out on the stuff I don’t like for the stuff that I love.

Kira: No, that’s true. I mean, the sacrifice comes in somewhere. And it could be sometimes that you just don’t really care that much about, like TV shows, or whatever to could be. For some people to could be the gym. Like, it’s not their thing. They don’t get energized there.

Misha: Exactly.

Kira: Okay, so I know we’re going to wrap this conversation but I what to ask you, you have been in the club, you’re active in the conversations, there are a lot of new copywriters that are just getting into the scene, and they have a lot of questions, and I know you’re usually in there helping them. What advice would give them, like that new copywriter, who’s just trying to figure it out. You know, might feel a little bit desperate, and is seeking some guidance. What tip would you give them, based off what you did or maybe what you didn’t do, but you kind of wish you had done?

Misha: I would probably say, this is the hardest thing to do, but be confident. Be confident in your abilities. If this is something that you really want, and you know, maybe not just your mom has told you you’re good at writing, but other people too, if you’ve actively gotten results, absolutely have the confidence to move forward. If you haven’t ever written a single word of copy, you’re going to have go through that point to get to the confident point. Be confident and fail forward and fail fast.

Rob: This has been an awesome interview. We spent some time with you Misha, last week, you know, doing photos and what we saw so far has been a lot of fun. You’ve made even me look good, which is-

Kira: You have a great smile.

Rob: I think…

Misha: Tell your wife I said that, because she’s going to get mad.

Rob: Yeah, we just did some family photos the other day, with extended family and I was trying my hardest to smile. Hopefully I did okay, but they were looking good. People what to find you for I’m sure more than photography. If they’re looking for you online, how are they going to find you?

Misha: You can find me at or my Facebook page is obviously And that is probably where you can see. If you’re just in love with the sound of my voice, that’s where you want to go, because that’s where I do my Facebook Lives.

Rob: And some of us like your pink hair as well, so there’s that.

Misha: Yeah, that’s always changing. I got to keep my audience coming guessing, I got to keep them entertained. Right?

Kira: Yeah and Misha, it was great to meet you in Texas and I think that you’re such a creative person and the reason we wanted to bring you on the show was just because you are, no only are you a great writer, but you’re taking photos and not only just taking photos but they’re branded and their quirky and fun and so, anyway I was so good to meet you in texas and it made the whole trip … you and rob and some of the other copywriters made the whole trip worth it.

Misha: It was a really good conference and meeting you guys was honestly if you hadn’t been going to CSI, it didn’t have as much charm without you two.

Rob: That’s nice of you to say.

Kira: This is turning into a love fest.

Misha: I know right?

Kira: Everyone’s like, okay, we’re done, thank you for being a part of the club and being on the show.

Misha: Thank you guys for allowing me into your club too.

Kira: We’re glad you’re there.

Misha: Awesome.

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You’ve been listening to The Copywriter Club Podcast with Kira Hug and Rob Marsh. Music for the show is a clip from Gravity by Whitest Boy Alive, available in iTunes. If you like what you’ve heard, you can help us spread the word by subscribing in iTunes and by leaving a review. For show notes, and full transcript, and links to our free Facebook community, visit We’ll see you next episode.

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