Copywriter Chanti Zak (aka Chantelle Zakariasen aka the Queen of Quiz Funnels) joins us for the 54th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Chanti started her career as a food blogger, racking up more than 50,000 regular visitors and a big email list before transitioning to copywriting for coaches and other wellness-based businesses. During our interview, she tells us about:
• how she went from moderately successful food blogger to in-demand copywriter
• the biggest differences between blogging and copywriting
• quiz funnels—what they are and what they do
• how a quiz can segment an audience—and they don’t even realize it’s happening
• how she’s packaged her services to be appealing to different kinds of clients
• how she pitches and cold emails clients successfully
• what she does to make her emails stand out and get a response
• how she batches her pitches to use her time more effectively
• website shame and what she did to overcome it, and
• the three things she invested in to upgrade her web presence
We also asked her what she would do differently if she had to start over and where she thinks copywriting is headed (hint: interactivity seems to be a big thing these days). Plus we wanted to hear more about her stay in India before she started writing and how that experience has impacted the way she approaches her business today. To hear what she told us, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:
Sponsor: The Copywriter Accelerator
Chanti’s food blog
Cosmopolitan
Buzzfeed
Pinterest
Ryan LeVesque
ChantelleZakariasen.com
WordPress
ChantiZak.com
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
Intro: Content (for now)
Outro: Gravity
Full Transcript:
Kira: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Accelerator a three-month program with six core business components designed to help new copywriters lay their foundation for a successful business.
Rob: Participants receive in-depth training, coaching, and feedback from us, which means you get access to us in a private community. Registration is now open and the early bird rate ends on October 27th. Learn more at TheCopywriterAccelerator.com.
Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast.
Rob: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 54 as we talk with copywriter and quiz funnel expert, Chanti Zak, about creating quizzes that hook potential customers, and to make them want to share going from in-house writer to freelance and finding clients fast, pitching podcasts, and how studying yoga in India has made her a better copywriter.
Kira: Chanti, welcome.
Chanti: Thank you for having me. I feel so honored.
Rob: It’s awesome to have you here.
Kira: Yes-yes, so I think a great place to start is with your story. How did you end up becoming a copywriter?
Chanti: Well, I started a food blog randomly enough. I had this paleo food blog when my son was a newborn baby, and I really quickly grew it to like 50,000 unique visitors per month, and I was getting featured on like Cosmopolitan and BuzzFeed and all of these really big publications, so from there this whole online world opened up to me and I started getting writing work as a direct result of my food blog, so what I did is I used it as a portfolio of sorts, and that’s sort of how I started freelance writing and copywriting.
Rob: I’m really curious you started a blog and grew to like 50,000 people.
Kira: That’s a big deal.
Rob: Yeah, that’s a dream that a lot of bloggers have been working for years to do. How did you do that? What did you do to grow?
Chanti: Well, I think it’s easier with food than it is with a lot of more niche topics because everybody’s got to eat and food it’s like this innate human desire we all want delicious things, so I basically just picked up a camera and started photographing recipes that I would make, and I’ve always been really into nutrition and natural health and I studied that for a long time, so I would sort of weave that in and write on those topics, and then basically it took off. I think one of the main reasons was because of Pinterest. Everything on Pinterest was just going viral like this one muffin recipe to me is really simple and this basic recipe had like 100,000 shares.
Rob: Wow.
Chanti: Yeah.
Kira: Okay, I want that recipe because simple is ideal for me right now.
Chanti: Yes.
Kira: Are you still blogging on that blog? What happened to it?
Chanti: No, I basically like just let it go and surrendered because I didn’t have time for it eventually, and I wasn’t really making money off of the blog directly, like I think to make money off a blog 50,000 visitors sounds like a lot of traffic, but you need more like 500,000 and upwards of that, so I just sort of said, “I’ll work on this later,” and started focusing on growing my copywriting career instead.
Kira: So what did those early days look like for you where you were just starting to get the gigs, and realize that this is what you want to do?
Chanti: I was so happy just to write that I took jobs for next to nothing, which is probably a common theme with a lot of writers, and I got to stay at home with my son, so I didn’t really care and I knew that there was potential to grow, so at first I was writing these heavy research laden 2,000 word articles, and getting paid 50 bucks. It was pretty bad.
Rob: Ouch.
Chanti: Then eventually I started moving towards copywriting because I saw that had a lot more potential to actually become a business.
Rob: Tell us the next step. How did you get yourself to the point where you felt like you’d call yourself a copywriter as opposed to a blogger?
Chanti: Well, from the beginning I’ve relied really heavily on having a mentor and having teachers to help me continually grow and learn and level up, so I worked with a lot of different people in that way, and I really pushed myself to practice and basically learned a lot on the job, but I didn’t make the full switch to conversion copywriting until I’d worked full-time for one company as their main copywriter, and it was at that point that I saw how powerful a well-written funnel is and that my words could generate upwards of 50 grand a month like that’s when it really clicked.
Kira: Yeah, and I want to hear more about the in-house gig as far as what attracted you to it because I believe it was full-time and any lessons you learned while you were working there that you don’t mind sharing?
Chanti: It was full-time and full-on like I was writing the whole course content, sales funnels, promotional campaigns, blog articles like I was in charge of the copywriting and the content marketing, so the workload was really heavy, but to answer your first question I was drawn to it because I was at this point in my copywriting career where like I had really poor boundaries with clients and I wasn’t charging enough, so I was constantly just sort of flailing and stuck in feast or famine mode so this opportunity presented itself and it was a nice cushy salary that I just couldn’t pass up at the time.
Rob: Before we get into what you’re doing now I want to talk a little bit about the difference between writing for blogs and the copywriting you were doing in-house what do you see are the main differences between the way you wrote as a blogger and the way you write today as a copywriter?
Chanti: I guess as a blogger it’s more from a perspective of value always comes first, and it’s more so about building those preliminary relationships that happen way before the sale ever happens, so when I was blogging a lot sales weren’t really on my mind, whereas, when I’m writing conversion copy my main goal is how can I write this so that I can inspire people to take action, and ultimately invest in whatever it is that I’m writing for.
Rob: So maybe if you had been doing more of the conversion thinking with the food blog you could have gotten more of them to buy. I’m kind of joking around a little bit, but…
Chanti: Well, it’s true. At the time like I didn’t really understand the power of email marketing. I had grown this email list of thousands of people and I had no idea like what to even do with it, so it wasn’t until later that it kind of clicked, and I was like, okay, I learnt that lesson the hard way, but I’m going to do it again some day.
Kira: Right, so some day is now, right? You were in-house, now you are no longer in-house, so what did that transition look like where all of a sudden like you’re back in the freelance world, and you need to get clients fast what did that look like for you and how did you get those clients and stay afloat?
Chanti: It was really intense. I knew that I wanted to leave the company. I was feeling really burnt out. At that point like I knew that I could make more money on my own, so I basically had this like exit plan, and my exit plan got totally messed up because I ended up getting laid off like way before I was planning on leaving, so I was totally terrified. I was the sole provider for my little family, and suddenly I had to start from scratch, so the first thing I did was get support and I joined The Accelerator with you guys, which really was the main reason that I didn’t totally drown like you guys helped me so much, and I just hustled hard for three months.
I focused in on the areas that I knew I could get results and stand out in the marketplace, so quizzes for me was the one thing that I’d done a lot of in my in-house job, and I knew that I could get results for people with quizzes, so I rebranded my entire website and my messaging. I did a lot of cold emailing, a lot of pitching. I reached out to old clients, and somehow by the skin of my teeth it all worked out and continues to work out.
Rob: I don’t think it was the skin of your teeth. You worked hard, I mean, you hustled.
Kira: Yeah, you’re a hustler.
Chanti: Yeah-yeah, it was an intense summer.
Rob: Let’s talk about quizzes. Obviously, everybody knows what a quiz is. Tell us a little bit about the kinds of quizzes that you build, and what they’re for, and how they’re used.
Chanti: I started building out what I like to call a quiz funnel. I’ll write a quiz and I’ll usually dwindle it down to the four different outcomes will be the four main audiences that my client has, so almost like Ryan Levesque uses buckets that’s how I look at the outcomes of the quiz, so the primary motivation there is segmentation. The client can then look at those results, funnel each of those outcomes into its own personalized, customized sales funnel, and use that to increase their sales, create better messaging for these individual groups, so that’s like the quiz part, and that’s sort of how I developed that. Then the funnel part I create a welcome email sequence or sales email sequence or both, and basically get those segments to feel like they can trust and connect with this person because they’re getting such a personalized response.
Rob: Awesome, so can we talk about an example of that? You don’t necessarily need to name an actual client if you don’t want to, but like how does that work? What do the steps look like?
Chanti: Yeah, definitely. Like I have a client right now and he runs a website that’s dedicated to helping entrepreneurs to grow their business, so there are a lot of different stages of business growth when you’re an entrepreneur and we’re talking like from very beginner to people who are ready to build an audience to people who are potentially ready to build a funnel or create a course, so all of these different segments need completely different marketing. The quiz is basically value based so it’s like how can you level up in your business, get your personalized plan, and then they do this quiz, and they get a result that’s directly tied to where they’re at in their business and the follow-up funnel is completely geared towards helping them achieve their unique goals. There’s a lot less leaks than your traditional one path funnel where everybody’s sort of grouped into one mass and given the same message because we can customize each of those pathways.
Kira: I don’t know if we can say this, but we can cut it out if not. The client that you’re working with is a really big name entrepreneur and maybe you can’t share his name right now, but it was a really big win for you because you hustled and you pitched hard, which we’ll talk about in a minute. We also worked with you on our first quiz as we’re trying to grow our list as well, which was in my mind a huge success because we were able to grow the list, and also the people in our Facebook group loved it because they were getting these quiz results that actually spoke to them as human beings, and they were like, “Oh, I learned something about myself and my business and the type of copywriter that I am.”
Chanti: Yeah, it was really cool to go through the comments in the Copywriter Club and just see everyone like, “Oh, this is totally me. It speaks to my soul. You understand me.”
Kira: Yeah-yeah, I mean, I think copywriters have some ego, right? So even when we were working with you as copywriters you’re like, “Okay, like maybe I can put together a quiz,” and then you came in and did it and I realized there’s such an art to it, and it’s really intricate when you do it well, and not everybody can do it that there is a science to doing it that you’ve mastered, so I would like a behind the scenes look at if you could just kind of take us through when you had the idea, “Hey, I want to go all in and create this quizzes package,” and how you’ve pitched it since then just to kind of show anyone whose listening who wants to create a package what it really takes from idea to landing and getting paid what that actually looks like at a high-level of what it took for you to get there?
Chanti: It all started when I was working in-house, and I was using quizzes as a key part of all of our sales funnels, so I was seeing the results firsthand and their effectiveness compared to all of our webinar funnels and video challenges and free guides and eBooks, like all of those paled in comparison to the results that I was getting with the quizzes, so that’s sort of where the idea came from because I knew that I could generate like tons of leads, and that this was a really valuable service that not a lot of people were offering.
Like one campaign, for example, when I was working in-house this little quiz that I think it was one of the first ones that I put together, and I had no expectations. It was like 10,000 leads in one month with barely any ad spend, which resulted in like a $50,000 product launch over the next two-week period, so looking back on my experience in-house once I went freelance it was kind of a no-brainer that like, yeah, I can take this and I can run with it, and I’ve done it before, and I’ve gotten the results, so even though I’d only done it for this one specific niche I thought it will probably work the same for a lot of other different types of businesses, and I just sort of ran with it.
Rob: How have you thought through the packages that you’ve put together to offer to your clients?
Chanti: I’ve played around with them a lot and basically I created three tiers and focused on what people most often want and need. Personally, I don’t recommend my clients use quizzes unless they have a solid welcome email sequence established and part of the reason for that is because a quiz it’s such a minimal commitment on the part of the person whose taking it. I want to make sure that my clients are getting the most of their new leads so naturally I thought I would offer that as part of my package, and it’s really easy for me to explain that to someone if I hop on the phone with them because I mean, it’s a no-brainer like they need to take this cold traffic and make it warm and that’s what a welcome sequence does, so that was one of the packages.
Then another layer of that was Facebook ads because I’d seen amazing results with quizzes and Facebook ads like the average conversion rate is under 50 cents, so I also decided to have a package where I offered Facebook ads, the full funnel, the whole shebang as well as the strategy that goes into that and that’s sort of like the signature one that I sell the most of, but also there’s just the quiz if people just want the quiz, or there’s just the quiz and the welcome sequence and those are the three packages that most of the time clients want.
Kira: That’s really cool and I love that you do the Facebook ads as well, so that you can really cover everything. What advice would you offer from your experience putting together the packages because putting together packages can be tricky and you’ve done some that are successful so what would you say to a copywriter whose trying to put together a package based off what you’ve learned?
Chanti: I would say that it takes time and you’re constantly refining your packages to reflect what your audience is asking for. At first, it can be sort of a guessing game because if you don’t really know what people want you’re basically assuming that you know what’s best for them and you’ve got this package that you think is a good fit, but it’s not until you get some real feedback from your audience and from your clients that you can actually create packages that make sense for them, so I would say like give it some time, and if you can hop on the phone with your clients, or your ideal clients and just ask them like, “In a perfect world what would your ideal package look like? What would it include?” You can even ask them how much it would cost, and that will give you a really good sense of how to put together packages that sell.
Kira: That’s great advice.
***
Hey, we’re jumping into this conversation with Chanti to tell you a little bit more about The Copywriter Accelerator, which she was actually a member of, and mentioned earlier in this episode.
Rob: Yeah, we heard a lot of good things from the last participants, and we’re grateful for what Chanti was saying about it. We figured out through the beta process the things that have worked, and what maybe didn’t work quite so well, and we’ve made a few changes to the second round of The Accelerator, and we are committed to making it better than ever.
Kira: So if you’re wondering what is it?
Rob: What is it?
Kira: It’s a three-month program with six core business components designed to help you really lay the foundation for a successful business really fast.
Rob: Yeah, so what you’re going to get if you join The Accelerator is six training modules focused on things like laying a business foundation so that you have all of the pieces in place for success when you’re a copywriter. What you’re going to get is six training modules that cover all kinds of things that you need to lay the proper foundation for your business. Things like getting your mindset right, choosing a niche, packaging your services and getting them in front of your customers in a way that they want to respond and buy. How to structure your business with processes so that things are easier for you, and you can spend more time on the things that matter. Creating a brand that will stop your customers in their tracks, and how to get yourself in front of those customers, again, so that they respond and want to work with you.
You also get six group calls where we’ll talk about how you can put those things into action specifically in your business. You’ll also have the opportunity for hot seats where we can talk about the individual challenges that you’ll face and have everybody in the group contribute ideas for how to solve those challenges. You’ll have access to our private Slack group, and a kickoff call with us to identify the goals that you want to accomplish over those three months, so that we can make sure that we are laser-focused on helping you move your business forward.
Kira: One of my favorite parts is that each training module has a challenge so we’ll send you a challenge and we’ll provide feedback on that specific challenge, and if you have questions we’ll answer your questions. We’ll give you guidance and it’s individual attention, which is where you get the most traction.
Rob: So how much does it cost? The early bird rate is $1,200 that ends Friday the 27th, and we’re gonna kick off the following week, so you’re going to want to get in and join if this is something for you as quickly as possible.
Kira: Right, and when we kick it off you’ll get the first training followed by a meet and greet so we can all get to know each other in the group before we jump into the three-month Accelerator together.
Rob: We’re going to start the first week of November and we’d love to have you join us. If you’re interested in The Copywriter Accelerator if this feels like the kind of thing that you could use to move your business forward then check out TheCopywriterAccelerator.com for more information. Now back to our program.
***
Kira: So as you have created these packages I know you’ve hustled like we said and you’ve been pitching them and you’ve landed various projects, so what does that look like in reality because we talk a lot about cold emails, but like what does it really take even mentally to do it, and what does that look like as far as numbers how many emails you’re sending, anything that you can share around pitching?
Chanti: I have really worked on my cold emailing game over the last six months. The main thing is that good cold email takes time. There’s nothing worse than sending out a generic pitch to hundreds of people and not hearing anything back and wondering why that is and wasting your first impression because you didn’t put the time in. I guess either it’s a numbers game or it’s a quality game, and I tend to lean on the quality side like every cold email that I write I spend probably too much time writing it and researching the person that I’m reaching out to, and just doing my best to authentically connect with them on a personal level so that they don’t feel spammed because nobody likes to feel spammed. I use a really basic template and then otherwise like it’s fully customized.
Rob: So, again, can we talk about an example you don’t have to mention a name, but tell us what kind of things you would do to research the person that you’re reaching out to whether it’s for a project or to pitch a podcast, which I know you’ve done a lot of as well, and had some real success there. What are the things that you’re looking for so that you can include it in your pitch email?
Chanti: Basically, I go out and find people that I think would be really cool to work with and that seem to have solid businesses whose values I genuinely align with, and then I just find what I like about them whether it’s through reading their blog posts or checking out their podcast, or even just commenting on their product line, and then I try to establish sort of a rapport from that point forward. I have written to so many people, and I’ve had tons of people respond and say, “This is the best cold email I’ve ever received. I don’t even want to work with you, but it was a really nice email. Thank you.”
Rob: Nice.
Chanti: Then, of course, there have been people that have been interested, and that are genuinely like, “Oh, cool, I didn’t even know this existed.” So one of the ways that I’ve been getting people’s attention is creating like an idea of what I would do for them, so if I’m pitching someone a quiz I’ll put together a few preliminary ideas and almost like their quiz topic/headline and outline a few ideas in the email itself, and then I think it’s a little bit harder for them to just ignore. It’s clearly like I put some time and some energy into it. I’ve been getting good results with that.
Kira: It is amazing I was just going to say what you said about quality over quantity, but we tend to want it to be a numbers game, and just want it to move really fast and get out 100 emails this week, but people really are more responsive when they know they can tell that you spent a lot of time, so they almost feel indebted to actually respond, and consider you as an option plus it’s also well-written and you’re solving a problem for them. I would like to just hear more about what it actually looks like in your week, so are you pitching a ton of emails a day, or is it just a certain number per week? How do you keep track of it so that you’re not getting discouraged and you continue to make progress and start booking projects?
Chanti: I’m playing around with this right now and in our think tank group this is one of my challenges to myself is to send one cold email a day, and one podcast pitch a day, so that doesn’t seem like a lot, but even those two emails I’m having a hard time like keeping up with that, so I try to batch it and do them all at once, but it doesn’t always work out that way, so if I can just dedicate an hour a day to sending those two emails I don’t feel too bogged down, and I don’t feel too discouraged if I don’t get a ton of responses.
Rob: Yeah, it seems like if you’re putting in that much time researching the person that you’re sending the email to an hour to do two emails, I mean, that’s ambitious. It could easily take an hour or two to do one.
Chanti: Yeah, it’s so true, and I think as I sort of refine the process it’s getting to be a little bit faster like for eCommerce if I’m pitching two eCommerce companies there are a lot more similarities in that email than there would be if I’m pitching like a life coach, and an eCommerce business in the same day, so trying to group those different niches, and then batch cold email has been a bit of a time saver in that regard.
Rob: Yeah, that seems smart to me. On the other hand worrying about saving time is probably not the goal here because you’re trrying to connect with somebody on a human level so that you get noticed and you stand out from the crowd so that extra time pays off in the end.
Chanti: Yeah, definitely, it’s so true. If there’s a day where I only write one email then I don’t like beat myself up too hard about it because like, sometimes, there’s only so much time in the day.
Kira: Right, yeah, I mean, it’s a mindset shift, too, right? When you have urgent projects or family obligations and you just need to get it out that hour seems more valuable, so I want to shift gears and ask you about your rebrand because you have this beautiful new website, and I know you’ve put a lot of time into that. Gosh, you really did a lot over the summer. You just like gave your whole business an uplift, so can you just talk about what triggered you to reinvent yourself via your website and what that process actually looked like for you because I know it’s not easy.
Chanti: Thanks, Kira. Coming from you that is such a huge compliment.
Kira: I love your website.
Chanti: I love yours, too. When I first started freelancing I had horrible website shame. I had this website it’s still up. I don’t even want to tell you.
Rob: I’m covering my eyes right now because I have the same shame.
Chanti: It was so bad and I didn’t want to send anyone there. I just really wanted to hide this website.
Kira: Wait, it’s still up can we find it? Oh, we will. Oh, we will.
Chanti: It’s my full name, so if you can find out my full name and spell it correctly than you will win the prize of seeing the horrible website.
Kira: Which we will post on the website so everyone can see.
Chanti: Yeah, so I have this website and the option was to either like pick up where I left off, or do a full rebrand and just start from scratch, so I chose the latter. I worked really hard on doing my own branding because at the time I really couldn’t afford to hire like a fancy brand strategist as much as I wanted to, but I did invest in three things. The first thing I invested in was a custom WordPress child theme, so like I could change it up, but it was basically customized and didn’t look like all the other websites out there. Then the second thing I invested in was a professionally designed logo, and the third thing was professional photos, so those three things all in all maybe cost like 500, 600 bucks, and I think that really helped me to DIY it and do like rebrand on a budget basically.
Kira: I appreciate you sharing the three different elements that you paid for because, I mean, that’s an incredible investment for around $500 to do it on your own, and have such a professional looking website. It’s really impressive.
Rob: It’s also impressive the change from the first website where you’re talking to a very different audience, wellness, and you’ve really turned your brand into conversion copy, and generating leads. It’s really impressive in the short amount of time you were able to take what you represented at one point and turn it into something completely different and it’s worked for you because you’re hustling to make it work.
Chanti: Yeah, because when I first started freelancing I was fully focused on working with just health coaches, and nutritionists and chiropractors in this whole wellness scene, and I really like boxed myself in, in a sense, and I’m all for finding a niche that you love, and that feels good, and that pays well, but I wasn’t actually enjoying it that much like I was going to rip my hair out if I had to write another sales page about the power of like green smoothies, but changing directions it felt like I had to do it if this was going to be a sustainable long-term business.
Rob: I like it, yeah, it’s turned out really nicely.
Kira: So, Chanti, I would love to hear just if you could start over in your career, and I know this is a big question what would you do differently at this point?
Chanti: I wouldn’t let people walk all over me. When I first started I had zero confidence. I had zero boundaries with clients, and I worked for free a lot. I do not recommend working for free even if you’re just starting out I wouldn’t have done that if I had known how little people value free work. I wrote whole websites for free.
Kira: Oh, my goodness.
Chanti: People, were like, “Thanks, thanks a lot. Here’s a testimonial,” so I definitely wouldn’t do that again. I would have had contracts in place right off the bat to make sure the scope of work was really clear, that there were boundaries in place because for me when I was just starting out it was a total guessing game. I felt bad asking people for money. I felt like I had to apologize when I told someone how much something was going to cost, and I really didn’t value the work that I was doing.
Kira: Yeah, so how do you create your boundaries today? What do those boundaries look like?
Chanti: Today it’s so different I’m like a completely different person because I’ve seen the impact that good copy has. I know the potential, and I know that what I do not everyone can do it, so it’s valuable, and I don’t feel bad about charging well for that, and I don’t feel bad about sending a client a contract and saying, “Okay, here’s how it’s going to work. This is how the project is going to unfold. You are not the one that’s in control here. I am leading this project, and I do my best to make sure my clients feel like they’re in good hands and they’re taken care of and they don’t have to babysit me.” I think that came from just experience and maturity because when I first started out I was like 22, so I was young enough to kind of just be like, “Oh, yeah, it’s fine. Pay me whenever you want,” and I wasn’t like cynical and jaded yet, whereas, now I’m kind of like, “No-no-no, you’re not going to burn me like you sign that contract.”
Kira: Chanti, you’ve been in the Facebook group and seen people who are in that same stage where they have zero confidence and zero boundaries. What would you say to them to help them get from where you were and where they are to where you are now?
Chanti: Oh, my gosh, I think I would say be uncomfortable and be okay with being uncomfortable because that’s what’s going to make you grow, so even though at first it was really uncomfortable for me to have those boundaries and to continue to raise my rates and to be confident and show that confidence it was really scary at first, but I changed my mindset to embrace the discomfort and know that every time I feel that fear and have those butterflies that it’s a really good thing because I know that it’s helping me grow, and that the next time I have to do the same thing it’s going to be way less of a big deal.
Rob: When you say you’re uncomfortable you’re uncomfortable asking for money or you’re uncomfortable just standing up for yourself, you’re uncomfortable getting in front of your client in a way that you’re being the strong business woman as opposed to somebody that is just writing copy?
Chanti: Yes, exactly, everything, and some things are more uncomfortable than others. For me it was super uncomfortable to talk about money and say like, “This is how much it costs. No, there’s no wiggle room. I’m not going to give you a discount,” and to really own that value. For me at first that was uncomfortable, and that was just my own stuff, so I couldn’t let it hinder my ability to grow as a business.
Kira: I want to ask you one final question about the future of copywriting. It’s kind of a big question, but what do you see coming up for copywriting, and in our space online marketing? Can you provide a prediction so we all know what’s coming up?
Chanti: I’m gearing up for way more interactive content. I think before we know it everything will be interactive and customized to suit our personal preferences. Big data is already plotting to take over our minds and our wallets with wild technologies that tap into our most basic human desires. Also, like virtual reality I think is going to kind of take over the scene. I’m not scared because robots are not inherently creative, so I don’t think copywriters will be easily replaceable.
Rob: I want to ask a final question, too, Chanti, but I want to go way, way back to before you were a copywriter and maybe even before you were a food blogger you went to India to study yoga. How does that impact what you do today?
Chanti: Well, I practice yoga every day, and it helps me a lot to just stay grounded and chilled out and to de-stress, but going to India was a life-changing experience in so many ways. I could probably talk for another hour about that one thing alone, but in terms of like how it affected my business I think there’s just so many different people and ways of living and we’re all in it together so copywriting for me is understanding different perspectives and getting on the same level as the people that you’re trying to talk to and speak with and being immersed in a different culture for six months was probably the best training that I’m ever going to get in understanding perspective, so that’s a long-winded answer.
Rob: I’ve had the same experience when I’ve lived overseas and when you’re immersed in a different way of doing things where Amazon doesn’t show up at the door. Your refrigerator isn’t big enough to hold more than two days worth of food, or the milk goes sour. Those are silly examples because there’s so much difference out there, but trying to learn how to understand other people there’s no better way than to actually living with them.
Chanti: Yeah, definitely, and also it just puts it into perspective how many opportunities that we have like living in Canada I don’t think I could be anymore fortunate, and I have no excuses. Like I have no excuse. I can’t just sit on my butt all day and make excuses because whatever I didn’t like go to university, or da-da-da-da-da. Like I have the Internet and I have food whenever I want it, and a roof over my head so that really fuels me, too, like I can do this, and then I can make a bigger impact and help more people with whatever profit I create.
Rob: I like that perspective.
Kira: Wow, yeah, that’s inspiring. I need to get out of my bubble.
Rob: Let’s all go to India.
Kira: All right, as I’m going through different yoga poses over here. If anyone wants to reach out to you potentially for you to help them with a quiz or just to reach out and say hello where can we find you?
Chanti: Hop on over to ChantiZac.com or you can find me on Facebook. I will tell you my full name is Chantelle Zakariasen, so you can check me out there. Send me a message. I love hearing from everyone, and I’d be happy to answer any questions or give you any guidance if you want to create a quiz of your own.
Rob: Such good stuff. We love the quiz that you did for us. What a phenomenal service that you’ve put together for your clients really worth emulating a lot of the things that you’ve done over the last few months, Chanti.
Chanti: Thank you.
Kira: Thank you, Chanti.
Rob: You’ve been listening to The Copywriter Club Podcast with Kira Hug and Rob Marsh. Music for the show is a clip from “Gravity” by Whitest Boy Alive, available on iTunes. If you like what you’ve heard, you can help us spread the word by subscribing to iTunes and by leaving a review. For show notes, a full transcript, and links to our free Facebook community, visit TheCopywriterClub.com. We’ll see you next episode.
