And how you can do it too using the exact same “template”
that worked for me (which I developed after learning what DIDN’T work!)

Referral Reliance ← it’s a thing.

It’s something that many copywriters (*raises hand*) experience at some point in their business, when they’re—you guessed it—solely reliant on referrals from their network and industry peers for client work.

Which works perfectly fine if there’s plenty of projects in the pipeline.

But when the “Referral Well” runs dry…?

Uh-oh.

You look back over the past few months, realising that you’ve only worked IN your business—not ON it.

Sound familiar?

Well, that’s exactly what happened to me in June 2019. I got too comfortable (and let’s be honest, pretty lazy) receiving referrals left, right and centre—and this was the consequence of my complacency.

So after panicking a little, I sought help from 4 of my mentors (2 of which, own this website here ;) #meta)—and they all literally told me the same thing:

“Get on more podcasts.”

Okay, great! 

…but how though?

How do I find the right shows to pitch to?

What do I put into a pitch that’s going to be valuable?

What happens after the interview?

Well my friend, I’ve got the A’s for these Q’s in this blog post as I walk you through my journey of becoming an accidental Podcast Guesting Expert after I pitched to 101 shows in 30 days, and got booked on 33% of them.


But first, why podcast guesting instead of guest blogging or doing videos on Youtube?


Well, maybe these stats will paint a better picture:


Ahhhhh, I seeeeeee.

Before you think that there are fewer opportunities… there are actually more because podcasting is still in its infancy stage, so there’s actually less competition.

But… there’s more to it when we compare the different ways to consume content.

I mean, right now with this blog post—you’ve stopped what you’re doing, right? You’ve carved out time to consume this piece of content in written form.

Same with videos.

You have to set aside time to watch them to properly consume them, right?

But what about the last time you tuned into an episode of The Copywriter Club podcast?

Really think…what were you doing?

Were you…

•   Walking the dog (or yourself?)
•   Washing the dishes? Or the laundry?
•   Making lunch?
•   Driving? Sitting in traffic? Shopping?
•   Going on a jog?

… you get the picture.

It’s the only medium that fits into those little pockets of time throughout your day, instead of you having to actively set aside time to consume.

Not to mention, it’s the most intimate medium too (it’s literally someone’s voice in your head).

It’s the equivalent of someone whispering in your ear.

You don’t just let anyone do that, right?

Nope. 

Just people you trust.

And what are we always told to work on in our businesses? 

KLT—The Know, Like, TRUST factor.

So, imagine that it’s your voice your ideal client listens to, your story, your experience that they hear in their ears.

This can be what takes you from being a commodity, to positioning you as a sought-after expert in your industry.

Not to mention, your interview LIVES ON.

It doesn’t only matter on the day it goes live, my friend. It can always be found. 

(In fact, I still get leads from interviews I did over a year ago!)

So when I learned that this was something that could work for me over and over again… I was sold.

And I was going ALL. IN.

That’s when I set myself a challenge to pitch to 101 podcasts in 30 days.


How I Got Started with Finding Aligned Shows

I thought of every podcast I ever listened to that had the same or adjacent target audience I was serving, and then I went deeeeep into the rabbit hole of Apple podcasts to find similar shows to fill up my spreadsheet.

To not get lost down the rabbit hole, here’s how you stay on track with the right shows:

1. Google your ideal podcast.

2. Click on the APPLE Podcasts link (not the host’s website).

3. Scroll to the bottom where you’ll find a section that says: “Listeners Also Subscribed to”.

4. Check out the adjacent shows, and read their show descriptions as well as their episode titles (so you have an idea of the kinds of conversations they have).

5. Vet them by asking yourself:

“Is this show still running?”
“Do they take guests?”
“Do our personalities match?”
“Are our values aligned?”
“Has this host covered my topic before? If so, what can I contribute to the conversation?”

(These were some of the filter questions I had to ask myself before I dove in to find their contact info).

6. And of course, LISTEN TO THE SHOWS. Believe me, the host can tell if you’re familiar with the show or if you just read the show description. Do the work and actually listen to the show you want to pitch.

I know it looks like a lot of work up front, but it’s this degree of vetting that will significantly increase your chances of getting a yes.

Of course, I didn’t know this at the beginning… I only discovered this as I went along. 

And note to past self, and you, my dear reader…

DO NOT TELL THE HOST YOU’RE DOING A PITCHING CHALLENGE!

(You see where this is going, right?)

Mhmm, here’s how it went down for the FIRST pitch I ever sent:

Aaaaand the host’s response was:Yep. I pretty much wanted to quit on the spot and hide under a rock.

But when I really looked at the response from the host, the message was loud, clear, and simple:

“Make the host feel special.”

So from there on out, that’s exactly what I did.

For the remaining 100 podcasts for my challenge, I hyper-personalised every pitch (you’ll see what this looks like in just a bit).

And for every 1 of 3 (33%) pitches I sent, I was accepted as a guest.

*Cue the Confetti*

While I was thrilled, I really wanted to understand why these hosts said yes.

So, I asked them right after our interviews: “I’m curious, what was it about my pitch that made you say yes?”

And their collective answers were distilled into something I now like to call “The PR Method.”

• • P = Personalization – something as simple as writing their name (and spelling it correctly!) makes a huuuuuge difference, and this acts as the initial hook. Don’t just stop at the name. Make your whole pitch personal.
  • R = Relevancy – this is where you demonstrate the value you can provide to the podcast host’s audience, and this acts as the retention piece of the pitch. Make sure your pitch is relevant to the host and their audience. 
    

Simple, right?

Make it personal, keep it relevant.

Here’s the pitch I promised earlier…

Mhmm, I’ve got you covered with an example to put this into practice.

For the sake of this post being even more meta I thought it’d be fun to show you the actual pitch I sent to Rob and Kira here at The Copywriter Club.

What’s funny is that at the time, they were also my mentors inside their copywriter mastermind (The Think Tank), so you’d think I’d have a natural connection, right? 

Well, I still wanted to respect their process.

And that goes for any podcaster you might know. No matter how close you are to them, if you choose to pitch them—always respect their process.

Cool beans? Awesome.

Sooooo, here’s my TCC podcast pitch.

I’ve shared both what I wrote and the strategy behind everything I did so you can do the same thing when you pitch…

You can see the PR method interwoven throughout the whole thing, right? I’ve made it personal with several references to their programs and what I know about them… and suggested lots of ideas relevant to their audience.

It worked, and this pitch became episode #152 on the TCC podcast:

…and it doesn’t stop there. 

Let’s Look at the Bigger Picture… Leverage.

I’ll admit, when I was doing this challenge, I didn’t think of anything beyond the interview.

It felt like such an uphill battle to even get there, so anything after was beyond what I could see…

But after guesting on 40+ podcasts to date, I can tell you that the power of podcast guesting truly doesn’t end when your interview goes live. A year later, I still get leads and inquiries from the podcasts I’ve been on.

To make sure you leverage each and every interview—and build your list—have something you can offer listeners who want to know more (some hosts won’t allow you to share anything—which is fine, it’s their show… but others will be happy to let you share a lead magnet or another valuable resource for their audience). Click here to see what Kira and Rob share when they’re on a podcast. Power move: consider customizing your resource based on the podcast and audience.

Instead of focusing on how many podcasts interviews you can land, choose to focus on the who and why behind it. 

Behind the microphone of every podcast is a human who has a greater vision and purpose. 

So when you pitch them, you’re playing a role to help them fulfill it.

As soon as you start realising that you’re a part of the bigger picture, you’ll find that podcast guesting will become an incredible catalyst for you to build lasting relationships with industry leaders.

And with some of those relationships, you may just find yourself finding the secret entrance to a plethora of opportunities.

So yes, while you may be building your email list on autopilot and experiencing an uptick of discovery calls being booked from the podcast audience… you may also find yourself:

•   Being hired for work by the host themselves, and/or being referred to other clients by them
•   Invited to teach private training inside their paid courses, group programs, masterminds, and memberships (you know the saying: “Those who pay, pay attention?” right?)
•   Invitations to speak at events and summits
•   Becoming/finding an affiliate partner for your own offers
•   Becoming legitimately good friends

Aaaand the list goes on.

The question is, are you willing to let go of that “Referral Reliance” so you can ascend to the next level of visibility for your copywriting business?

Because if you are, this is truly all you need.

1. Find the podcasts that align with your brand

2. Hyper-personalise your pitches by interweaving The PR Method

3. Keep your heart and mind open to the bigger picture of lasting relationships and business opportunities.

And finally…

Realise that there are people waiting to hear your voice, your story, and your message.

I set myself this challenge to prove that I didn’t have to have 10 years of industry experience, or to have claimed the “2 comma badge of honour” in order to be worth enough to share something of value.

And neither do you.

If you’ve read alllll the way to the bottom of this post, you’ve just shown yourself how much you want to do this—you just need the how.

You’ve got the how.

So now it’s your turn to amplify your voice.

———————————————————————————————-

Want 25 proven ways to get booked on podcasts in 2020 and beyond – by hearing directly from the hosts themselves?

25 Expert Podcasters – including Jasmine Star, Rick Mulready, and Rob & Kira—shared their out-of-the-box advice in this free guide:

Be Our {Podcast} Guest

Mai-kee Tsang is a Podcast Guesting Strategist (totally accidental, as you know) & The Sustainable Visibility™ Mentor. She helps purpose-driven copywriters, coaches, and course creators to expand their reach, grow their business, and make a deeper impact — by helping them book themselves on aligned podcasts with integrity. Find her at MaikeeTsang.com.

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